Book Shop Chats:

Uncovering Rose Valland: The Forgotten Fighter Who Saved Europe's Art with Michelle Young

• Season 1 • Episode 70

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Michelle Young unveils the extraordinary story of Rose Valland, an art historian and resistance spy who gathered intelligence for the Monuments Men during WWII Paris. She explores how this highly decorated war hero faded into obscurity despite her crucial role in tracking Nazi-looted art across Europe.

Book Blurb: 

A riveting and stylish saga set in Paris during World War II, The Art Spy uncovers how an unlikely heroine infiltrated the Nazi leadership to save the world's most treasured masterpieces.
On August 25, 1944, Rose Valland, a woman of quiet daring, found herself in a desperate position. From the windows of her beloved Jeu de Paume museum, where she had worked and ultimately spied, she could see the battle to liberate Paris thundering around her. The Jeu de Paume, co-opted by Nazi leadership, was now the Germans’ final line of defense. Would the museum curator be killed before she could tell the truth—a story that would mean nothing less than saving humanity’s cultural inheritance?
Based on troves of previously undiscovered documents, The Art Spy chronicles the brave actions of the key Resistance spy in the heart of the Nazi’s art looting headquarters in the French capital. A veritable female Monuments Man, Valland has, until now, been written out of the annals, despite bearing witness to history’s largest art theft. While Hitler was amassing stolen art for his future Führermuseum, Valland, his undercover adversary, secretly worked to stop him.

Author Bio:

Michelle Young is an award-winning journalist, author, and professor whose writing and photography has appeared in The Wall Street Journal, The Guardian, Hyperallergic, The Forward, and Narratively. She is a graduate of Harvard College in the History of Art and Architecture and holds a master’s degree from Columbia University’s Graduate School of Architecture, Planning and Preservation, where she is a Professor of Architecture. She is the founder of the publication Untapped New York. She divides her time between New York City, Paris, and the Berkshires, Massachusetts.

Social links: 

Instagram @michelleyoungwriter

Threads @michelleyoungwriter, 

X @michelleyoungny

Bluesky @michelleyoung.bsky.social

About Victoria:

Hey there, I’m Victoria! As a writer and developmental editor, I specialize in helping busy writers bring their publishing dreams to life without the overwhelm. Editing doesn’t have to feel like pulling teeth—it's the magic that transforms your story from “meh” to masterpiece!

Here’s how I can help:
📖 FREE Manuscript Prep Workbook: Take the stress out of editing with simple steps to organize your revisions.
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🌐 LINKS: Victoria Jane Editorial

Speaker 1:

Oh hey, it's Victoria from Victoria Jane Editorial and your host of Bookshop Chats. This podcast is all about authors, writing and the magic that goes into storytelling. We cover all of the things that go into writing a book, from the creative process, from taking your idea to a first draft, creating and cultivating community within the author space, marketing all of the fun things. If you are a reader, a wannabe writer or an author, you will find tips and tricks that suit whatever level you are at. So I hope that you enjoy and you are unfortunately, or fortunately going to find many more books to add to your TBR, so I will invite you to sit back and listen to the episode. Welcome back to Bookshop Chats. In today's episode, I am chatting with Michelle Young. Michelle Young, welcome to the podcast.

Speaker 2:

Thank you so much for having me here.

Speaker 1:

I am very excited to chat with you. You were one of the few nonfiction authors that I have had the opportunity to chat with, so I would love to hear all about your book that is coming out Well as we talk now, in almost a month, so this is very, very exciting.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, out May 13th, yeah. So the book is called the Art Spy, the extraordinary, untold tale of World War II resistance hero Rose Vellon. And Rose was an art historian and resistance spy in World War II Paris and if you've heard of the Monuments Men, she was the woman who gathered all the intelligence for them and passed it along in order for them to find where all the Nazis had looted, stored and stashed the art from all around Europe, in Germany and Austria. So I'm telling her wartime story and really trying to bring her to light as a full-fledged woman and for everything that she stood for and was.

Speaker 1:

That is so fascinating. I would love to hear a little bit about how this story kind of came to you. What made you decide to write about her?

Speaker 2:

I mean, she sounds amazing but also.

Speaker 2:

I know so in my career before writing this book, I was writing about New York. I'm a professor of architecture at Columbia. I started a publication called Untapped New York in 2009, which is still going, and so on the side I could not read a single thing about New York City. Everything was extremely triggering. Should we have an article about this? Should we do a tour of that? I was like no more, and so I fell into World War II books. My in-laws' family, both of my husband's grandparents, fought in World War II and were awarded the French military medals there, and my own grandfather survived the atomic bomb in Hiroshima. So I've always been really interested in World War II and I thought, why not, let me embed myself now in French World War II history, since I don't know as much about it? And then fell into a subgenre of World War II female spies, true stories, nonfiction and it was funny. I was in an interview the other day and they were like we assume that's a hyperbole what you wrote in the end notes of your book. I was like day and they were like we assume that's a hyperbole what you wrote in the end notes of your book, and I was like not hyperbole, I spent many years almost exclusively reading these books and Rose Vallon didn't come up in any of them, and in fact there was a book that compiled all of the French resistance heroes and it came out only in 2019 or so and she was also not in that.

Speaker 2:

So when I did discover her, it was in a book called Goring's man in Paris by Jonathan Petropoulos. He is a looted art expert professor in California and he was writing a book about this Nazi that he had come to know through his research. And Rose Vallon was this guy's nemesis inside the museum called the Jute Poem which is next to the Louvre, and her museum focused on modern art, picasso, all the names we love today but at the time it was sort of like a fringe movement. It wasn't super well respected in like the art world, although obviously in cultural Paris it was a big deal, and so I discovered her in this book.

Speaker 2:

Every few chapters she'd appear and for me she like flew off the page. I was like who is this woman? First of all, so brave, and second, how come I haven't? I didn't know about her, since I seem to have read everything about French female women, spies, world War II, so I looked into her, saw that not much had been written about her yet. There was no dedicated book to her in the United States in English, and in France. There were one or two that were accompanying museum exhibitions, but again not even you could say traditionally published book or anything. So that seemed like an opportunity and I thought maybe this is the story that I should turn into a book, cause I had this in the back of my mind. I had a lot of ideas. I have a friend who would like vet them and tell me every time bad idea, michelle. And when I got to this one she said great idea, this is your story.

Speaker 1:

So I love that. That's just so fascinating to me. Like I feel like that it's, it's so cool to to see these, I guess, like bring these people to life in a way how like probably at the time they they thought it was they were doing nothing, but then to look back and to see, like the bravery and all of the stuff that goes in, like it's just, it's mind-blowing, and then to be able to tell her story, that is, yeah, so cool yeah, and in addition she became fairly well known after the war and she had written her own memoir, which was more of like an academic treaties of art looting plus some of her personal recollections that came out of the early 60s.

Speaker 2:

So she was kind of well known, let's say, in the two decades post-war, but then she actually died in obscurity and then was forgotten. And it's really since maybe the starting in the late nineties, her hometown started to celebrate her. An organization was created to remember her and slowly over the last few decades she's become a little more well-known in France and there's been like a real uptick, I guess, in the last few years. But that amazed me too. You could be she was one of the most meddled women in World War II, so you could be that you could have a book published. She even had a chapter of her book option to become a Hollywood movie. It's called the Train with Burt Lancaster, and even after that you could have nobody at your funeral because you've been written out after that, that's wild, it's so, it's so, yeah, it's just there are no words.

Speaker 1:

It's wild and I think it's. I feel like bringing these stories to the forefront now is a really important thing because, as we were chatting before, like recording a lot of this history is dying right Like, so to be able to show these stories to you know, the next generation, I think is really important.

Speaker 2:

It's so true. And I felt an extra responsibility because as I was digging through all the archival materials whether it was hers or Nazi decrees I had to really unpack how the looting occurred and why and and try to explain that in real layman's terms, because the Nazis were very complicated and they wanted to be by the book. But what I really discovered was that there were so many echoes with the present time period and I'm not even making a real like political left and right statement. It's just like you start to see echoes, you see the same language used sometimes, and so I don't moralize in this book at all, but I present things in a way that hopefully the reader will be like, oh, that sounds familiar, and then I want them to think about that past, present. But it's my style, it's not really. I'm not good at opinion writing, so I just want to like do the research and show that and hopefully make people identify with that material.

Speaker 1:

I think that's such a great way to approach it of just like this is it? And then from there you get to see and I think that I feel like that's a really important thing for people yeah, to like learn how to like look at the information and be like, wow, this is kind of this is a little bit great, like there's, you know, ethical dilemmas in here, like it's a whole thing Right, so it's that's a very interesting approach, yeah, and like you know, my background is also in journalism and so I really wanted to stick to that approach, but then write it in a very thriller like way, so more in a fiction style, and one of of the one of the things that comes to mind as you're saying that is, there was one exhibition that happened in germany.

Speaker 2:

It was called the degenerate art exhibition.

Speaker 2:

So they had taken all the modern art paintings off the walls of the museums in germany, put them on exhibition to show like this is the cultural decline of germany look at this picasso and the chagall. And they also did something where they tried to liken the modern art to the art done by people in what they would call then insane asylums, right, and by handicapped people and such. And I was trying to figure out how to say, how to explain this in modern day terms. But it's like no matter how I phrased it, it felt politically incorrect because there's a lot of debate about how do we describe these populations. And then I realized, kind of in a subsequent edit, I was like no, it's much more powerful to actually just quote what they said, because that's the important part, it's not me translating how they said it and trying to make it either seem worse or nicer, or you know it's actually just use their words and then the reader can figure that out. So that was a moment that I thought was like interesting from a craft perspective.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, that is, and I think it's it just kind of like that's really going to be the best way to convey kind of the mindset that they like in the beliefs and the systems that they lived in, right, like that was their world and they were in it and they believed it and, as horrible as it was, I think having that like shown, like there's a way that you could, could explain that I think in a way.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and they meant it. Yeah, they meant it in a derogatory way, right, but it's like me having to write it without quoting. I can't write it in a derogatory way, obviously, and so, no matter what word I used, it felt offensive and so, like many rounds in, I was like wait, I'm approaching this wrong, like.

Speaker 1:

A hundred percent. I feel that I imagine that it's quite a different, yeah, a different, process for writing, obviously like non-fiction with history and and really kind of like I'd love to hear a little bit about that process for you of like how, this kind of like how you put together this book yeah, this book, in a way the.

Speaker 2:

The research was really vast. So I talked about just understanding art looting and why. But there's also the wider aspect of the war and I have two storylines in this book. There is Rose in Paris and in this museum she's spying, the Nazis have taken it over and we talk about all the events that happened there. But I knew from the get-go I felt like that wouldn't be enough for a narrative nonfiction book because she's not really moving around. And not just the lack of movement, but how do we tell this story of World War II? It's all situated with World War II.

Speaker 2:

So I have a secondary character or characters all from one family, and it's the art dealer, paul Rosenberg, and he is the exclusive art dealer to Picasso, matisse, braque, leger, so the big deal in modern art in Paris at the time and his son ends up escaping to England and fights for Charles de Gaulle in the Free French Army and fights for Charles de Gaulle in the Free French Army and without giving too much away. Rose and Alexander cross paths in an amazing way in World War II. But Paul Rosenberg is also Jewish, his family is Jewish and their art gets looted. They're one of the first targets of the Nazis when they arrive in France. We want Paul Rosenberg's art collection and so through the lens of this family I can tell the looting from a personal perspective.

Speaker 2:

It's not just here are all these decrees, how terrible they are, how much numbers of art is stolen, but it's what actually happened to this one family when their whole art collection is looted, all the places they've hidden them around the country are found. Their house gets requisitioned. They flee France. Luckily early enough they come to the United States. So their story represents many family stories from World War II and then also tells that art looting and then, because the son fights for Charles de Gaulle, we have all of his movements through the battles in World War II to liberate France in the end. And so through the secondary storyline I can tell this larger part, put everything into context, of what Rose is doing.

Speaker 1:

Yes, so yeah, that's the construction of the book.

Speaker 2:

And then research-wise. Yes, as a result, it was heavy lifting. I went to a lot of archives Some they were able to get me, some remotely, especially the ones in Germany, but I was all around France, the US Rose was part of both the French military and a detective. I was like a detective, even more so than a researcher. So, piecing together where people live did they live together Like so many small details, like they become like one adjective, one line, sorry in the book, but sometimes it required like months of tracking down a document and I personally love, love that process.

Speaker 2:

And then, in terms of writing it, I, for many months, initially, I would separate. These are the days that I research and process all my materials, and then these are the days that I write. And it would have been different if I was writing more of an academic or, let's say, reported story. I could probably do that on the same day, but because I was writing in the narrative, nonfiction way, it was like I had to turn my brain around and then absorb the material and then write it.

Speaker 1:

Yes, like an undertaking, I feel like, and also to the amount of, like you said, the amount of research that goes into, like a sentence in the novel. You're like, wow, this is a lot of time, but it's important, like you need to have that information, especially like wanting to make sure it's historically accurate and all of that sort of stuff.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, so yeah, totally, it's the historic accuracy. And then, to give another example, there is I found a lost chapter of Rose's own memoir that had been cut for some reason, and it's like one of the most exciting chapters she wrote for her book, and it's about her escape from Paris as the Germans are entering the city and how she helps the museum employees escape. They're taking this boat, germans are dropping bombs and flying planes low, amazing stuff. And I thought, great, I have the chapter. I can now include this in the book.

Speaker 2:

But actually, when I sat down to write it, I realized that her one perspective is just not enough to actually tell this in the narrative nonfiction way, and so then I spent days hoping I might find some other account of somebody who also escaped Paris by boat, and it took me several days of like doing crazy combinations and permutations of searches, both on Google, of course, but in French archives that had digitized those old newspapers, and that's where I found it, those old newspapers, and that's where I found it.

Speaker 2:

After many combinations Again, I found a woman who had a serialized account over the period of like eight weeks or something in a long lost newspaper, and I aligned up their timelines and realized they were just like right one behind each other on this river, on the Seine, and I was like amazing Cause. Now I know that their experiences are extremely at basically the same time. So anything this woman saw and I believe this one was a little bit ahead of her Rose would have seen, and so that, and I found a few other small accounts, but it was necessary. It would have fallen flat had I only had this one account, which was roses, because everyone is focused on certain things when they're retelling a story.

Speaker 1:

That's so true of like that one specific detail that one person noticed, and then to have multiple people to be able to, kind of like create that richer, like yeah, just put people in that, because it is so different from what so many of us have experienced.

Speaker 2:

So I think that having that like just yeah it's it's hard to put into words what that would have been like, so to have yeah, like caps would have been really important, for sure, right and I think what's interesting also is that, um, I didn't really write this book with an outline, I just knew that it would be chronological, it would have the two, two different stories that intertwine. Um, and so as a result, like when I found that chapter and it came to the point in the story to write it, I sat down to write it and then I realized that it would fall flat without more information. So at that point that's when I started searching for more. So there are other nonfiction writers that believe that you got to do all of your research before you start writing. And I'm just not like that, because I guess I come from the journalism world where you're just kind of like information is constantly flowing and you're constantly producing, and so, yeah, I wanted to highlight that because it's like just kind of two different ways to write.

Speaker 1:

A hundred percent. I think that's such an interesting thing too. Of like that's a, that's a big thing that I talk to a lot of authors about. Of like really just finding your own unique rhythm, and I feel like each story is going to be so unique and it's going to ask you to tell it in a different way, right, so really just like honoring that, I think, is a really important thing, and I mean, at the end of the day, you've got the story written, so I feel like that you did it right.

Speaker 2:

Right.

Speaker 1:

That's. That's. That's what matters, Right? We got the story out. It connected Um, and people are going to be able to read it soon, which is really really exciting. Uh, and I would love to talk about um kind of your experience with the traditional publishing kind of world. Um, I was really really fascinating to hear how that works, because it feels very like mysterious.

Speaker 2:

Yeah Well, so prior to this I didn't self-publish but I wrote books almost like on commission from smaller independent publishers. So my first book was one of those Arcadia black and white photo history books that you see in museums. I did one. They asked me to write one about Broadway, the street in New York, so I did that. And then another publisher out of France but publishes books in English and French, asked me to write guidebooks about New York. And these were guidebooks not in the traditional sense, but each location gets an essay like a one pager, yeah, so they're more like article length. Um, so they're called secret New York, secret Brooklyn. So I did that and, um, and both kind of paid differently. So Arcadia is just purely royalties. Can't say that I've made a lot on it, but I do get like a, a check every every so often. And then and then this publisher out of France called they. They pay you up front for the entries and the photographs. So at that point in my career I actually preferred that I needed money and so I said this is great, I don't care about the royalties, I'm just happy to be paid great, right and then and then.

Speaker 2:

But I think if you do want a book to be a bestseller, and of course it's not. It doesn't. There are always things outside of what we think is the norm. So of course there are bestsellers that have been self-published, but the traditional way that I needed coaching and I had a friend who had published several books and she walked me through this Once I told her this is my idea and she said green light, go she.

Speaker 2:

She coached me through it. So she said you need to become an expert in this, in this field. So even though you have a lot of bylines, a lot of places, you haven't written a lot about looted art. And even though you're an art history major from college, you need to really establish that with recent clips. So while I was kind of putting together my research plan and writing little blurbs about the book, I was writing freelance for hyper allergic, the four different publications to say like I'm someone that writes about looted art.

Speaker 2:

And then she told me kind of how to put together well, create a research plan for me, I'll review it with you. And then at some point she said, okay, I think you're ready. And she happened to know a few agents, so she introduced me to one first and then actually he'd signed on so I didn't have to talk to anyone else. But I think, um, I think more and more we need to, like, leverage the contacts. So, whether it's putting yourself, go to conferences, Like I just did a conference with the same friend, the AWP conference in LA, the writers conference, and two people she met there she introduced to the agent that we share. So it's like that is just much more efficient than querying a lot of agents. I don't even know if that process works. You're just wanting, like so many.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I think the networking thing is better, but it's like networking, I mean just like go to a conference and talk to people and like some things might pan out. Um and uh, yeah, and what else should we talk about in terms of the traditional process?

Speaker 1:

Uh, I think that this is really interesting, like a lot of the authors that I have like connected with have, you know, gone through like querying and that's how they kind of got picked up. So I think it's really interesting that you bring up the point of networking and just like building that community. Lot of um, a lot of authors really struggle with uh, I feel like a lot of uh, there's just sort of that introvert I like to write like that's what I love to do, going out and talking to people selling myself.

Speaker 1:

that feels a little like really uncomfortable, right like yeah, but it is such a part of the process, um, of just like building out that connection and, like you said, you never know when you know that person that you met at a party like three years ago could have like a connection Like you just never know when it could turn into something Right? So I think like building that out is such a really important thing. And I think one other thing that a lot of I guess that maybe is a bit of a myth about traditional publishing is that you have to give up creative control.

Speaker 1:

So maybe like talking a little, bit about that sort of process of like how that works, because that's often what I have heard, or like a lot of self-published authors are like I just don't want to give up control at all, which I a hundred percent get, but then I'm like you are doing all of the things, so that can feel quite taunting too right.

Speaker 2:

So I think what I'm going to say is gonna be music to some people's ears. Actually, I had almost complete creative control, uh, from the beginning, and so maybe not all editors work this way, but my editor, elizabeth mitchell we would, um, I would probably like have a call with her once a month, kind of just it's more just felt better updating her. I don't even think she really necessarily needed that, but she let me, in that first draft, do whatever she said. You can send me pages if you want or you don't, and for me I am like some of your other writers.

Speaker 2:

I don't want to show people stuff too early and I want to be able to kind of figure it out until the point in which I feel like it's ready to be seen. So I didn't send her any pages and I just constructed this book and then then she got to editing and I I would say she didn't change anything. Very fundamentally, it was like I think we can cut this here potentially, or we can do like even more tighter incisions to like shorten the full length of the book, or I need more information here, and it was more of this. And so I feel like in the end, the product that came out was how I envisioned it, with fine tuning from my editor.

Speaker 1:

That is, yeah, I feel like that's that's magic, right, like finding an editor that like sees the vision and then this is there to help, kind of like grow with you is always like that's, that's the magic where, yeah, they just, they just know what the story is and I feel like they trust you in the process to tell that Exactly. Yeah, that's key.

Speaker 2:

And on the flip side I've heard some writer friends of mine if your editor switches in the middle of the process and that can't happen, that can be kind of challenging because you started this and you've kind of got the green light from one person and then another one comes in and they might have a totally different vision. So that can happen and I've heard it once or twice but it's not super common.

Speaker 1:

That, yeah, even that is just. That's a very interesting thing of like. I didn't quite realize how all of those backend things work Like when it comes to, like, obviously, traditionally publishing and I'm assuming each sort of publishing house kind of has their own flow and all of that sort of stuff yeah, um, but it, it is a business right like. So I think that's sometimes where a lot of people can kind of get a little intimidated by it, just if they want to sell the book and if they they think they can, then then that's you, you've got a, you've got a place, right yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, and I think you mentioned that you wanted to talk about the marketing aspect of the book too.

Speaker 1:

I would love to dive in a little bit more about that, because that is something that is often the bane of many authors existence of just like, uh, especially self-publishing. Obviously there is that element of like we're doing it all, but from a lot of the traditionally published authors I have chatted with, there is still quite a lot of marketing that kind of is involved in the process just with the nature of how media is evolving right now.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

So, at least in the traditional media space, it's pretty much par for the course now that most authors hire their own publicists that work with the in-house posts I would say.

Speaker 2:

Actually, I've had an amazing experience with HarperOne, with their publicity, but it was kind of like, since it was par for the course and it was my first traditional published book, I just wanted to put everything behind it.

Speaker 2:

So that's very common. And then, yes, they want you to leverage your own networks and I think, even isolated from the idea of selling a book, I do think, with the media landscape and the advent of AI search, which is like just like tanking media publications traffic, like I don't really know what the future of journalism is. For the first time, I'm very, very concerned, um, that it's going to be more and more important to reach your audiences directly, and that's that even affects traditional publishing, because you know if you get a placement interview in the New York Times, how many people are really going to see it at the end of the day. So I think this idea of building your own audience is going to become more and more desirable if you're trying to sell a book, whether it's self-published, or you want a traditional publisher to publish your book. So that's something that I'd recommend building that and making sure you retain ownership over that.

Speaker 1:

You know that customer data, if you want to say, yes, I feel like that's huge, just really like having something outside of social media. Yeah, that's what I mean, right, because you can grow.

Speaker 2:

You know hundreds of thousands of followers on Instagram or TikTok, but maybe TikTok is shut down one day or Instagram changes their algorithm. You you have no way to actually reach any of those followers directly because Instagram won't give you their email addresses. But if you have a newsletter and then you can, you can start to reach them and maybe it's a combination of things, right. You can like do a giveaway on Instagram and through that you can actually collect email addresses and you know so kind of leveraging every, every possible thing in the maximum way possible yes, definitely.

Speaker 1:

I feel like that's such an important thing and just like, obviously, going back to that, networking, like all of that stuff, I feel like is a really important part of the the process of just connecting with people and, yeah, getting your face in front of people and I feel like often, even if maybe the book isn't for them, they might know someone who would read it right, like that's?

Speaker 1:

that's. That's really important and I feel like it's always. It's always cool to hear other authors and their their stories and I always I'm like I need a thousand years to read all of these amazing books.

Speaker 2:

I know, yeah, and you know, at the end of event, like actually, like when I sit on panels, I love when people come up to talk to me. It's like there should be more, so like people shouldn't be afraid to like just make that personal connection, especially at events where, like you know, like a writer's conference, that the whole point of being there is to share and absorb.

Speaker 1:

So true, I think that's. Yeah, it's just, it can feel a little scary, but I'm all about like. I feel like this year is all about like just doing the thing Like we're just going to be afraid, and we're going to do it and it's going to it's going to work or it's going to take some time, but eventually it'll work yeah.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, yeah, I love it. Small things here and there, steps, small steps that build.

Speaker 1:

A hundred percent Amazing. Well, I would love for you to share how people can get in touch with you and get their hands on your book.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, so my website is michelleyoungwritercom. Michelle, with two L's, and there are links there to the art spy, but you can obviously buy the art spy in any bookstore or online. It'll be available on May 13th, so it'll be out by the time this podcast airs and you can contact me through through that website.

Speaker 1:

Amazing, awesome. Well, everything will be linked in the show notes so it'll be super easy for people to find you and your book. But it was lovely chatting with you. I feel like I learned so much. And now I need to go like research, all of things World War II, because I feel like that's my hyper fixation right now.

Speaker 2:

Oh, yeah, actually, and I forgot to mention, I think the one thing that helps you sell a book I'm speaking more in the nonfiction world, but is to have the story, either that people don't remember or just had never been told, and the access to that story. So why are you the person who should write this story? Is it access to people that are still alive, that knew that person, or their archives? What's you know? What's the why?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I think that's such a great reminder and I feel like, too, if it came to you in this person, like I just feel like there's, like that's you're the reason, like it's yes you're the one who needs to tell.

Speaker 2:

I do like, yeah, with Rose Vallon, I feel like I was fated to come across her and to give her the credit that's due, like I was the person to dig through like all these little scraps of paper, cause I love doing that.

Speaker 1:

I love it. That is so amazing. Well, I learned so much and, yes, I am very, very fascinated to learn all about Rose and her her story. Thank you so much. Thanks so much for listening to today's episode. I would love if you would leave a review and also, if you loved the author that we chatted with, go find them on social media and hype them up, comment on their stuff, share their work. Even if you can't buy the book, these kind of things are great ways of supporting indie authors and getting their book in front of new readers. And if you are a writer or author in need of a developmental editor, please reach out. I would love to chat. Everything is linked in the show notes and it would be an absolute honor to be able to get eyes on your novel. So thanks again and listen to the next episode.

People on this episode

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Victoria Hopkins

Host