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Book Shop Chats:
Welcome to Book Shop Chats, your go to podcast for indie authors and learning insight into what it takes to write a book (HINT: You can do it too!!)
Join authors as they share their personal journeys, successes, and challenges, providing you with unique insights into the writing process. The discussions explore into various aspects of storytelling, from character development to plot structuring, ensuring you have a well-rounded understanding of the craft.
Whether you're just starting out or have published multiple works, this podcast is your companion in the pursuit of storytelling excellence. Tune in, gather inspiration, and let your passion for writing flourish alongside a community that celebrates the art of the written word.
Book Shop Chats:
Crafting Worlds and Killers: The Journey of Fantasy Author Rhiannon Rollness
Fantasy author Rhiannon Rollness takes us on a journey through the creation of her dark fantasy novel "Black and Blue Widow" - a story about a female serial killer who targets the worst men in her society on their wedding night. Drawing inspiration from the TV show Dexter but set in a richly detailed world inspired by ancient Rome, Rhiannon crafts a protagonist you can't help but root for.
Book blurb:
Gild by Raven Kennedy meets a female version of Dexter in this gritty dark romantasy. With gods-blessed magic, vigilante justice, sisterhood, and unexpected romance, Black and Blue Widow will have you rooting for rage, revenge, and somehow, love.
She’s killed every husband she’s ever had. He wants to marry her anyway.
Luella Amulius identifies and marries the worst men in the republic. Then she murders them on their wedding night. When the Emperor’s brother, Cassius, discovers her next target, he doesn’t turn her in. He proposes. As their wedding approaches, Luella must decide: is he her partner or her prey?
Rose Octavius needs a husband. Desperate to escape her fathers’ plans to sell her to the cruelest brothel in the city and find a way to protect her sister, Rose accepts a proposal. As her nuptials loom, she realizes safety is more relative than she thought, and marriage doesn’t guarantee anything.
As each woman navigates an empire that would keep them obedient, they must determine whom to trust with their love–and their lives.
Black and Blue Widow is a dark romantasy intended for adult audiences (18+). It contains explicit content and darker elements.
Author bio
Rhiannon Rollness is a fantasy author, nurse, wife, and mother. When not balancing all of these, you can find her reading, obsessively listening to the same song on repeat, baking muffins, lounging by her pool, and daydreaming. In her stories, you’ll find a mix of fantasy, myth, and science. If you like books that remind us that the human experience is sometimes best explored in magical places, you’ve come to the right place.
Links
About Victoria:
Hey there, I’m Victoria! As a writer and developmental editor, I specialize in helping busy writers bring their publishing dreams to life without the overwhelm. Editing doesn’t have to feel like pulling teeth—it's the magic that transforms your story from “meh” to masterpiece!
Here’s how I can help:
📖 FREE Manuscript Prep Workbook: Take the stress out of editing with simple steps to organize your revisions.
Grab it HERE
📝 Developmental Editing: Get expert feedback that elevates your manuscript, strengthens your story, and polishes your characters.
✍️ 1:1 monthly support Writer's Haven: Revitalize your creativity, map out your novel, and unleash your authentic voice.
Your story deserves to shine, and I’m here to make it happen.
📱 IG: @editsbyvictoria
🌐 LINKS: Victoria Jane Editorial
Oh, hey, it's Victoria from Victoria Jane Editorial and your host of Bookshop Chats. This podcast is all about authors, writing and the magic that goes into storytelling. We cover all of the things that go into writing a book, from the creative process, from taking your idea to a first draft, creating and cultivating community within the author space, marketing all of the fun things. If you are a reader, a wannabe writer or an author, you will find tips and tricks that suit whatever level you are at. So I hope that you enjoy and you are unfortunately, or fortunately going to find many more books to add to your TBR, so I will invite you to sit back and listen to the episode. Welcome back to Bookshop Chats.
Speaker 1:In today's episode, I am chatting with Rhiannon Rolis. Welcome to the podcast. Hi, thanks so much for having me. Yay, I'm very, very excited to chat with you today and hear all about your book. Uh, you are a fantasy author, which I am always so fascinated by because I feel like you guys, just it's like you're writing almost two books. You have to create so much more than, um, you know those that that are using the like, just the world that we exist in right, like magic systems, worlds, all that sort of stuff. So I would love to hear all about your book great.
Speaker 2:Um, thank you, yeah. Um, so my book called. It's called Black and Blue Widow, and it's interesting that you mentioned like creating a whole fantasy world, because it was not inspired by anything in the fantasy realm. Um, it was inspired by the TV show Dexter, which, for people who have not seen it, is about a serial killer. I think the log line for the book is a serial killer that you will to fall in love with or something like that. So he has, like, a certain set of people that he kills, and I was obsessed with this show when it came out.
Speaker 2:I was getting ready to write my second book and I didn't really know what I wanted it to be yet and they talked about a sequel to the Dexter show and I just remembered how much I love that show and was thinking about how there's not really anything similar with a female protagonist.
Speaker 2:We don't get to see a lot of female protagonists who get to be the bad guy in a good way, kind of thing, want to write something like that.
Speaker 2:But I love romanticy, I love fantasy, so obviously it just made sense to me to mash them together. And so Black and Blue Widow is about a woman, about two women, but one woman who is a serial killer. She kills men on her wedding night the worst men in the Republic. And then it's about about rose, a woman who is forced into marriage too soon, and kind of how their paths intertwine as they navigate this um romanesque hellscape, um, where women are, um meant to be obedient, and so you kind of get to experience it through two different points of view.
Speaker 2:And as I was kind of creating the novel, thinking about what would make a female serial killer relatable to people or someone that you could root for, it just made sense to kind of have like have fun with this fantasy world and dig into, like the dark parts of roman history and then elaborate on them that is so fascinating to me and I feel like such a unique, uh kind of like spin on, um on, like a story because, you're right, like you don't often see, uh like the female lead being the one who is out murdering people Not enough.
Speaker 2:Morally gray women, no, in my opinion.
Speaker 1:No, right, and I feel like too there. Yeah, it's just an interesting spin on things that make you think of like, is this actually justifiable? Like, are there things that you know people could do that would be like oh, this does make sense that they are killed, right?
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that's definitely something I talk about in my marketing, because I think you have to set up good expectations for your readers so they know what they're getting into, and so absolutely you could have a book with a similar kind of theme that dug into like the ethics and the morality around. You know, when is this okay, when is it not like kind of reckoning with that? My book does not do that. This is a very much like good for her.
Speaker 2:You are on her side all the way. So I like to make that clear in my marketing because I think that is a great conversation and a really nuanced book that I'm sure is out there or will be out there one day, but it's not mine.
Speaker 1:I love it and I think that's so cool, is that it is like an idea and then like how you can springboard off of that idea right, like how it can go so many different directions. So I would love to hear, like, what brought you into writing, like how it can go so many different directions. So I would love to hear, like, what brought you into writing, like, how did you get started on this journey?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's. It's interesting. I was just talking with another writer about this and you hear a lot about writers who they've wanted to write their whole lives and they you know, they, they wrote stories in third grade. That was not me.
Speaker 2:I was always an avid reader. I loved reading ever since I was. I remember getting in trouble when I was eight years old for not leaving the house and wanting to read all day on the weekend and my mom was like you have to go outside and be in the sun for two minutes today. So that was kind of always my background. I did write a little bit of poetry, especially in college, but I never was like, oh, I want to be a novelist or oh, I want to write a novel. And then I kind of did my own things.
Speaker 2:My background's in nursing. I have a master's degree, I'm a nursing educator. And after I got my master's degree I was like what do I do now? Like I had been in school. I had two bachelor's degrees, so I had been in school like most of my 20s. And then I was like, well, I don't know, I kind of need to learn something else, I feel like. And so I I had there must've been something in the back of my brain that was like, maybe you should write a book, um, and I was like, yeah, I think I'll take um a creative writing class, maybe, and and maybe I'll write something, like I've always maybe considered, and that kind of was just the springboard, and once I started writing, I found that I just enjoyed it so much that it didn't matter if I was going to be published or not.
Speaker 1:And it didn't matter if I was going to be published or not, it didn't matter what I was going to do with the writing, I just wanted to keep writing.
Speaker 1:I love that, I think that's so. I find that so fascinating of chatting with a number of authors and it is very different, like there's quite a lot of authors that don't start writing until like their late thirties or forties or whatever, versus some that are like I've been writing since I could hold a pencil, so it's very unique to them and I think, at the core of it, though, often reading does kind of like guide them. I feel like, even if you know, I mean, I grew up with my mom like reading books to me as a kid and I think that there was something, yeah, really magical about that, yeah, just escaping into worlds that that are magical and different, and something like that. So it's really interesting to hear and, I think, remind people that you don't have to be doing it from like a young age. I think there's this almost like belief that I have to be talented, so I have if I start, you know, at 20, I'm too late, or whatever it is.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think it's really easy to, especially, I think, the older we get, we a lot of people you know they're very established in their whatever their main career is and they like, maybe, think about writing. It's very difficult and uncomfortable to be a beginner at something when you have not been a beginner for a long time. And I think people get into this mindset that you know the great books that they've read. The person just sat down and greatness flowed out of their fingertips and they don't see the behind the scenes that writing is a skill. It is an art, but it's also a skill and if you practice and hone your craft you will get better. And some of the great books that you've read, they were not that person's first book. They were not that person's first time they put a pen to paper and so you can start anytime, as long as you're willing to practice and improve and have fun with it.
Speaker 1:Yes, that is such a great reminder, right, we often we're judging the final product against our like first draft or whatever. And you're right, being a beginner is really uncomfortable, especially with something so vulnerable like writing. Right, that's one thing that I didn't realize when I like actively started writing writing like books is the vulnerability that kind of is a part of the journey, because you're putting your heart and soul into these characters and and stuff like that, especially from like writing fan fiction, where it's like these characters are already exist, right, so it's not like you're putting your spin on on these people in the same kind of way. So I find that it's. It is a scary experience, so it makes sense that there would be that fear and kind of like, oh can I even do this? And getting frustrated when it sucks because it's part of the process.
Speaker 2:It's absolutely part of the process. Everybody's first draft, most people's first draft, is not great.
Speaker 1:A hundred percent, to put it kindly Right, yeah, and that's, and that's the point. 100%, to put it kindly Right, yeah, and that's, and that's the point. And I I've talked to like a number of authors and this one I can't remember who it was that told it, told me it. But basically the job of the first draft is is for it to exist, like that's it.
Speaker 2:Absolutely.
Speaker 1:Because we often talk about the draft needs to be crappy or whatever, but I'm like that kind of puts a negative spin on it, but like if it just exists, you're like wow, okay, I've done it, I've done the thing it did, the thing it was supposed to do, amazing.
Speaker 2:So then I can only, I can only get better from there um and it's really cool to see that kind of like see your writing evolve um through that process, um even with that like first book, I find yes, I'm sure most authors would cringe at this idea, but I wish there was a place where you could see, like your favorite books, their first draft, like the first chapter, the first time it was written, and then what got published, because I'm sure that for most people they're wildly different.
Speaker 1:Yes, I feel like I saw somebody talking about this somewhere and I think that there is an actual place, but I can't remember what it was, but I'm like, oh, if I find it, I will. I will definitely share it.
Speaker 1:Yes, please you know because I think that that's such a great thing too is is to remind us that, yeah, like they, they're not more special than us, like authors that are traditionally. Like it's just the book caught the eye of the right person, and I think that's really like what it comes down to. Is they just kept going Right, like it's. Rejection is part of the process. So I would love to hear a little bit about how you've kind of navigated that part of the writing journey that I feel like a lot of us really don't love, but unfortunately it kind of goes hand in hand.
Speaker 2:Yes, unfortunately, especially if you're pursuing traditional publishing. But I think in all avenues of creative writing there's a lot of rejection and so we kind of touched on this before. But I um, with my first book I did traditionally query. Like a lot of writers, I thought my first book was perfect and beautiful and, um, you know, the the best thing to happen to to writing ever. Um, and that book I queried a lot and very widely and, um, I I felt very prepared to query. I listened to another podcast, the Shit no One Tells you About Writing, which you know they do query letter critiques and they share a lot of advice from the agenting side and I felt super prepared going in. Like I had my query letter reviewed, I felt awesome.
Speaker 2:And then I queried and it was horrible, my first book, I think I got one request out of over a hundred submissions, which is not a very good request rate for those of you who have not queried, which is not a very good request rate for those of you who have not queried. It's not great. And then I kind of took a step back from that project and realized that I was not enjoying writing as much because I was really getting in my head about the rejections but at the same time, I had a lot of readers for that project. I really recommend, whether you're traditional publishing or indie publishing, that you do have readers early on as you go through the process, either like alpha readers or critique partners who are other writers and eventually beta readers, before you start thinking about like releasing it into the world. And my readers liked it and a lot of the readers that liked it were strangers, so I trusted that they were not lying to me and so I started thinking about you know why querying was not going well and it really came down to marketing. Unfortunately, I think that book which is not published, it is sitting somewhere collecting dust.
Speaker 2:I think that part of it was that book needs work, but also, I think part of it is learning how to market yourself to publishers, to readers, understanding your audience and making sure that you are presenting what needs to be presented so that you're grabbing attention quickly, because people just don't. They don't have time. Agents are inundated with hundreds thousands of query letters. Readers are inundated with hundreds thousands of reels and ads and all these other things for their book. So you really have to think about what is a piece that's going to pull that forward. And so I wrote Black and Blue Widow, which is the book I actually independently published, and I queried that, and I queried it with a much stronger hook. I queried it in a way that I felt was much more catchy, and it actually did really well in the query trenches.
Speaker 2:I got a lot of requests for full requests, and then it was just waiting, and so, for those of you not familiar with traditional publishing, even when things are going well, there are oftentimes long waits, and you'll definitely see people who they sent their full manuscript and an agent offered in a couple weeks. But then you will also see the other side, where an agent maybe had their manuscript for a year, a year and a half, and then offered because they just didn't read it until then, and so I had a great request rate. I had a lot of agents who had my book and I just decided I didn't want to wait anymore. I was too impatient, and so I would say, if traditional publishing is something that a writer really, really wants, just go into it, knowing that patience is going to be your friend, and if you're not getting a lot of requests, it doesn't mean your book is bad, and if you are getting a lot of requests, it doesn't mean you're going to get something right away either. You just have to have the patience to keep waiting it out, keep trying, tweaking your query letter, making sure it's really grabby, and things like that.
Speaker 2:But I just couldn't wait anymore and I decided that I wanted to do it myself and I like the idea of having control on top of it.
Speaker 2:But the drawback is you don't have that team who's going to hire the editor for you, pick the cover for you and do these other things that, as an indie, you then have to take ownership of. So yeah, my advice is always just if you're committed to whichever path, that is great, and if it's traditional, you just really have to be patient and write another book in the meantime. For me, like I said, I kind of stopped enjoying writing, and that was another big pressure for me to step away from it, even when I was getting good responses, because I didn't want to stop writing. I was afraid that if I kept facing that rejection in that way, that I would not write, and so indie publishing definitely still get rejection in that way that I would not write, and so indie publishing definitely still get rejection in different ways. You get low reviews sometimes and things like that, but it's still because it was under my control. It felt better to me to face that type of rejection than the other type of rejection.
Speaker 1:Yes, that's such such a lot of amazing wisdom. I feel like that was something that I didn't realize when chatting with a few um authors that went traditional is the timelines that, like, even if you do get picked up, often there's like years between when your book is like ready and to go before it's out in the world and you're just like, okay, wow, like I didn't realize that it was such a huge, um yeah, space of time and I mean it makes sense, right, like it's a big business, like you're not the only one right like that, that sort of thing. But I find that really interesting. And then also this sort of almost assumption that I had made about like just because you're published already doesn't mean that you're going to get published again.
Speaker 1:Right, like it's kind of like each book is. Often you do kind of have to shop around, especially if you're writing in a different genre, like it's not a guarantee and I thought oh like that's really that was quite eyeopening, and yeah it is, it is big business, right.
Speaker 1:And I think I feel like that's really that was quite eyeopening and yeah, it is, it is big business, right. And I think I feel like when there's that amount of money involved, it's definitely a little bit cutthroat for sure when it comes to like who they can pick and stuff like that Cause if your book's not going to make money or they can't market it, then it's not. It's not going to be, even if it is a great book if they just can't figure out how to market it. That's an issue.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. I think timing plays a really big piece in that as well. I know they queried and they didn't get an agent. They wrote a couple more books and then something in the world happened that made that book that they previously wrote timely and then they queried it again and had a much better response and ended up getting published. So I think that is definitely something to consider as well. Your writing is never wasted and if you are interested in traditional publishing, you can always put that book on the back burner, write another book, query that and eventually maybe come back to that. Those old ones.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's such a great reminder is, and then to being able to come back to it with, like a fresh perspective and then like all of the stuff that you've learned in the meantime, during that time when you were still writing, because that is the best way to become a better writer is by writing and writing some more, right.
Speaker 2:And again, and again, and again, always always right.
Speaker 1:So you were chatting a little bit about kind of the marketing side of things. So I would love to hear, like a little bit about your approach to that. Obviously, you know there is a lot of books being published, so standing out is really important, so I would love to hear how you kind of fit that into your life.
Speaker 2:Yeah, of course, marketing is tough. I know a lot of writers um Really detest marketing. I personally, I like some aspects of it. I think it's like a different form of creativity when you're thinking about, like, making posts and making reels, and that can be really fun. I think the hard part for a lot of writers, and sometimes for myself, is that you do put a lot of effort into it and it is difficult when it feels like you're you're putting all this effort into marketing and then you don't see the benefits, right, like you're not seeing sales or you're not seeing engagement in social media. Or if you do end up, like paying for ads and you're not seeing your ads result in sales, like I could see where sometimes that can be disheartening. But I think that's why it's really important to choose marketing strategies that that you feel good about, right, like if you like making reels and you like being silly on the internet and you like doing skits, then do that and tie it into your book. Like I think you really need to play on your strengths. If you, if, if that's not for you, but you're like I wrote a really good book, then make sure you're sharing your favorite quotes from that book or, you know, doing carousels with different quotes or different scenes. If you don't like anything, then try a little bit of both and see what's hitting with your audience, right? Um so, for me, I I really like sharing quotes. Um, I, I like to be silly sometimes, but not not very often. Um so sometimes I'll I'll do silly reels.
Speaker 2:And then, because my I joke a lot with, like, my critique group, that black and blue widow was inspired by Roman history and mythology and it has Roman gods in it. But it takes place in an alternate world. And while I was crafting this alternate world, I based it off ancient Rome. And we always talk about how, when you're doing research for a novel, you end up using a half of percentage of all of the research you do. So, you know, even if you're writing a contemporary story but one of your characters is in a different like profession than you, you might do hours of research to put one line in about their profession. That like makes sense.
Speaker 2:And so for Black and Blue Widow, I did so much research on ancient Rome. And so for Black and Blue Widow, I did so much research on ancient Rome and so little of it is in the book that I was like what, what do I do with all this information? And so I started doing Roman Fact Friday, which is every Friday. I do either like a little video or a little carousel of just like a random fact that I learned. Some of it is stuff that I used or was inspired by and some of it is totally random and has nothing to do with it.
Speaker 2:And I started doing it just for fun because I was like who am I going to like dump all these facts on that I learned? And then, as I started doing it, I have a lot of readers who actually really enjoy it and they come back on Fridays and they're like oh, I love hearing all these random snippets, even though they have nothing to do with my book. So I think if you can find some fun things like that that you enjoy, um, that aren't too serious, that's a great way to market as well.
Speaker 1:Yes, that's, that's so. It's so simple too. I feel like often we overcomplicate it of like, oh, it needs to be like this, it needs to be whatever, but I think at the core of it, they really just kind of want to see you, um, and kind of the yeah, the story that you're telling, because I feel like they. So, even if we are, if you're writing like a fantasy, like fantasy, there is still, like you're still in it, like there's still elements of you the writer, like that's what people are drawn to, right, like your approach to the storytelling. So I think showing that stuff is really what draws people in and I think, really, if you hate it, like if that's going to show and that energy, people are going to pick that up. So, doing things that are like ideally fun, if you can, and simple, like don't yeah, yeah, do what works for you really.
Speaker 2:Yes absolutely, and I think you just, you also just have to like, keep showing up, right, like social media marketing, especially as a long game, like most of us aren't going to like hit viral overnight. Most of us, um, like newer authors, don't have a huge following, and so you just have to show up somehow often, um and so, however, that makes sense for you. If you can show up every day doing a complicated transition reel, that's going to get more views, that's great. But if you can only do that once a month and then it tires you out or like turns you off of it and you don't post again for another month and a half, that's worse than just doing the thing that you like that you don't think is gonna reach your audience as well, um, so that's always.
Speaker 2:My advice, too, is just keep showing up and try to have fun with it, like it doesn't have to be complicated or serious. I mean, like you said, people want to know you, and that's one of the benefits of being an indie author or even a traditional author on social media is that you kind of get to say like, hey, this is my book, but also this is me, and if you want to hang out and support me. You don't have to buy my book, but if you interact with me, you're still helping my platform and helping me grow my audience.
Speaker 1:Yes, that's such a great reminder of, like, even if it's not your, yeah, your book of choice, your genre, that you typically read. There's so many ways to interact and support authors that really don't cost anything. It's really quite simple, right, like the more, yeah, the more traction that a post gets, the more it's going to show it, whatever, at least that's the theory behind the algorithm. I still don't really understand, yeah, whatever, and it changes. Right Like, whatever season the wind is, I don't know, like it's too much, so I just stopped trying to chase that.
Speaker 1:I think that's one thing that really helps is like stop chasing the metrics, because while it can be helpful to kind of recognize, okay, what really worked, what didn't work, it's just it can become this like weird beast that you just get sucked into and then it really comes, like you said, very disheartening, and then it's really hard to show up and you really want to take care of your mental well-being because then you're not going to be writing. If you're like, if you're totally like dysregulated and depressed and all that Like there's no creativity flowing.
Speaker 2:So I think that's really important and there's no like, if you have a post that does really well, that doesn't necessarily mean that it's going to equate to sales or more people interested in your book. It just means that that piece did well. You know and a lot of authors always joke that like um, the piece that goes viral never has anything to do with their book. So it's like you never really know what's what's going to happen.
Speaker 1:So yeah, definitely it's. It's often the one that's most random and you're like what? Why? Did everybody like why is everybody interested whether or not I cut my hair, but okay, fine, whatever, it's funny. It's funny funny how that works, uh, but it's just the nature of the whole system of it that I don't really understand. But I participate in.
Speaker 2:We're all here anyway, but we have no idea what's happening.
Speaker 1:So well, I would love to hear what would be one piece of advice that you would have for somebody who is just starting out their writing journey.
Speaker 2:My number one piece of advice for someone just starting their writing journey is really to find and build community. I think that this is writing can feel very solitary, but I don't think it has to be especially the the whole process around it right, like you're not necessarily going to sit down with someone and write maybe, maybe you will, you'll do sprints online or something but but really just like building that community. Supporting other authors wins and other writers wins. Um, and I think being a little choosy about that community in the beginning is also a good idea.
Speaker 2:Um, I was listening to um an interview with Lucy Vine the other day and she was talking about how she once had a I can't remember if it was a reader or an editor who very clearly didn't like her style of writing right and was never going to like her style of writing, and so having that person give them feedback isn't helpful because that person is not their audience.
Speaker 2:And so if you are finding your writing community, I just recommend that you look for people who are your cheerleaders, especially in that first draft stage, who are going to help you finish the book, and who like what you write, because if you write for example, I write dark fantasy. It tends to be very dark themes. It's dramatic. That's the type of writing I like to do and so if I have a reader who's like this isn't lighthearted enough and this isn't comedic enough, like that's not my reader and they're never gonna like anything I write, and so to get feedback from them would not be helpful. They can be in your community and you can support each other, but maybe they're not the person you get feedback on your writing from. And I think just like knowing your community, building that community, and just knowing you know who's going to be your writing cheerleader and who's going to be your moral support cheerleader is really helpful early on.
Speaker 1:Yes, that's such an important piece of the puzzle when you're yeah whether it's like a writing community or even like people that you work with of really making sure that you're like finding the people that see the vision right, Because that's it's your story and I think there's a difference between like improving the like, the technical stuff you know, maybe your story is there's too much telling or whatever versus what is opinion right, like that's.
Speaker 1:this is a fine line and like really making sure, like learning how to discern what that is and what is important. Feedback versus what is, feedback that you're like I don't need to take this. So I think it's great to really cultivate like a community that allows that support to like be there where they, you know, while you're supporting each other, you're sharing. It's coming from a place of like I want to see this book published, Right, so it's, I think that's, that's really. It's a really great reminder.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I definitely think it can be easy to to take, take it personal when someone reads your work and they they have critique and they have feedback, and I've I've talked with a lot of writers about this how sometimes, like, your instinct is to clam up and be like, okay, well then I'm not gonna let anybody else read this um.
Speaker 2:But if that's happening, I think a lot of times the the best thing to do is just find another reader, um, and and find that balance between, like you said, like what advice you want to take and what advice you don't. And then also remember, like your, your first draft is, like we said, it's just existing um, and then as you, as you progress, that's when you're you're really digging into like, okay, now I want more um firm critique or more constructive critique than I did on my first draft, because that one I just wanted it to be there and to to see the vibes and to see the overall plot. And then, as you move forward, you're going to want someone to be a little bit more critical until eventually you're kind of moving that way.
Speaker 1:Yes, that's so true. Like the yeah, the story kind of grows with you, like the feedback grows with you too, as the story becomes what it needs to become Right. And then you know, as the closer that you get to actually having it with strangers, readers in the world, I feel like the more you're like I really want this to be as good as it can be.
Speaker 1:Please tell me what is working, what is not working. Help Exactly is not working. Help exactly, amazing, awesome. Well, I had such a lovely time chatting with you. I would love for you to share how uh listeners and readers can find you and your books and follow along your, your journey yeah, of course.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much for having me. This was so much fun. Um, so you can find me on. I'm mostly active on Instagram and threads. It's at Riri, underscore reads and writes. That's reads N like the letter N writes. And then I have my website, rhiannonrolnuscom, and you know my books are available on at most online retailers barnes and nomo, amazon but I also sell through my website and through my etsy shop, so all of those places.
Speaker 1:Well, everything we linked in the show notes. It'll be super easy for people to click through and find you and your books. Yes, it was lovely chatting with you. I always find it fascinating to learn the insides of how other writers craft their stories. I always find it really, really, really interesting.
Speaker 2:Me too. It seems like there's infinite ways to get to the end product.
Speaker 1:Yes, and that's what makes it so magical is that you get to do it your way. Thanks so much for listening to today's episode. I would love if you would leave a review and also, if you love the author that we chatted with, go find them on social media and hype them up, comment on their stuff, share their work, even if you can't buy the book. These kinds of things are great ways of supporting indie authors and getting their book in front of new readers, and if you are a writer or author in need of a developmental editor, please reach out. I would love to chat. Everything is linked in the show notes and it would be an absolute honor to be able to get eyes on your novel. So thanks again and listen to the next episode.
