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Book Shop Chats:
Welcome to Book Shop Chats, your go to podcast for indie authors and learning insight into what it takes to write a book (HINT: You can do it too!!)
Join authors as they share their personal journeys, successes, and challenges, providing you with unique insights into the writing process. The discussions explore into various aspects of storytelling, from character development to plot structuring, ensuring you have a well-rounded understanding of the craft.
Whether you're just starting out or have published multiple works, this podcast is your companion in the pursuit of storytelling excellence. Tune in, gather inspiration, and let your passion for writing flourish alongside a community that celebrates the art of the written word.
Book Shop Chats:
Rejection-Proof: How to Keep Writing When No One's Saying Yes with Dan Desai Martin
Dan Desai Martin shares his debut fantasy novel "In the Shadow of the Sanctum" and discusses his ten-year journey from idea to publication with Gold Dust Publishing.
• Dan's background in religious studies heavily influenced his world-building
• Fantasy allows creators to explore complex religious and societal dynamics in unique settings
• Rejection is part of the process and doesn't reflect on your worth as a writer
• Small press publishing creates opportunities to connect with fellow authors
• Writing requires patience and celebrating small milestones along the way
• Two key pieces of advice: "just write" and ignore advice that doesn't work for you
Author Bio:
Dan Desai Martin is a fantasy author signed with Gold Dust Publishing. He grew up reading fantasy classics (from The Hobbit to the Dragonlance series to Wheel of Time) and has never lost his love for the genre. After graduating with a degree in Religious Studies, Dan spent the past few decades trying to make the world a more just and equitable place, with jobs ranging from policy advocate to journalist to communications consultant. In addition to his own writing, Dan is actively involved in the Maryland Writer’s Association where he served as one of the editors for Emerging Voices: Poetry and Prose by Maryland Teens Volume 9, a selection of short stories, novel excerpts, and poems by members of the association’s teen writers’ clubs. He lives in Silver Spring, Maryland, with his spouse.
Book blurb:
Dan's debut novel, tentatively titled In the Shadow of the Sanctum, is set to be published in 2026. The fantasy novel combines the religious dystopia in Margaret Atwood’s A Handmaid’s Tale with the coming-of-age elements of Sabaa Tahir’s Ember in the Ashes series. In a realm where the twelve Holy Sanctums maintain absolute control through violence and manipulation, Ehla yearns for safety after fleeing a particularly sadistic High Priest. Instead of finding peace, she stumbles into a friendship with rebels seeking to free the realm from the Sanctum's shadow. As the truth and lies about the One God blur, Ehla must overcome anxiety from her past, distrust of those around her, and a growing desire for vengeance directed at the all-powerful and corrupt holy Sanctum.
LINKS: website: www.DanDesaiMartin.com, social media (@dandesaimartin) on Bluesky, Threads, and Instagram.
About Victoria:
Hey there, I’m Victoria! As a writer and developmental editor, I specialize in helping busy writers bring their publishing dreams to life without the overwhelm. Editing doesn’t have to feel like pulling teeth—it's the magic that transforms your story from “meh” to masterpiece!
Here’s how I can help:
📖 FREE Manuscript Prep Workbook: Take the stress out of editing with simple steps to organize your revisions.
Grab it HERE
📝 Developmental Editing: Get expert feedback that elevates your manuscript, strengthens your story, and polishes your characters.
✍️ 1:1 monthly support: Revitalize your creativity, map out your novel, and unleash your authentic voice.
Your story deserves to shine, and I’m here to make it happen. Let’s turn your writing dreams into a reality!
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🌐 Website: https://www.victoriajaneeditorial.com/links
Oh hey, it's Victoria from Victoria Jane Editorial and your host of Bookshop Chats. This podcast is all about authors, writing and the magic that goes into storytelling. We cover all of the things that go into writing a book, from the creative process, from taking your idea to a first draft, creating and cultivating community within the author space, marketing all of the fun things. If you are a reader, a wannabe writer or an author, you will find tips and tricks that suit whatever level you are at. So I hope that you enjoy and you are unfortunately, or fortunately going to find many more books to add to your TBR, so I will invite you to sit back and listen to the episode. Welcome back to Bookshop Chats. In today's episode, I'm chatting with Dan Desai Martin. Welcome to the podcast.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much. It's so great to be here. I'm a big fan.
Speaker 1:Ah, yay, I'm super excited. It weirds me out but it's also cool. Obviously, the point of a podcast of like people listen to it and then people are like I listened to it, I'm like, oh my gosh, that's kind of that's cool, but weird as well. So that's great yeah, no it's.
Speaker 2:It's a lot of fun. I love hearing the different authors and and, and I love hearing the different authors and you digging into kind of how they got into it. And then also, I think we're all always looking to learn and wanting to learn, and so you know, no matter where you are in the process, there's always a desire to learn and an ability to learn, and so podcasts like this are a great way for all of us to learn from each other.
Speaker 1:I love that. That's such a great take. Well, obviously you know the drill. It is your turn to share all about your book. I was reading the teasers that you shared with me and I'm very, very excited, and now obviously the world needs to hear it, so please dive in.
Speaker 2:Well, excellent, I'm so excited. My debut novel is In the Shadow of the Sanctum. It's slated to come out sometime early next year through Gold Dust Publishing, which is a small publisher out of North Carolina. It's a fantasy novel and in the book, 16-year-old Ella yearns for safety after fleeing a particularly sadistic high priest, but instead she becomes embroiled with rebels who are fighting to free the realm from the oppressive shadow of an all-powerful and corrupt holy sanctum. She's gripped with anxiety but determined to find the truth about the one God, the evil serpent and the magical power of song. And as she's on the run, she's struggling to overcome anxiety from her past, distrust of those around her and a growing anger directed at the sanctum. And so that's kind of the boilerplate of what it is. And it's fun uh, just fun fantasy adventure for any fantasy fans or if even if you're not a fan of the genre. Um, I've had beta readers who weren't really fantasy fans and and really enjoyed it, so I hope that it it appeals widely.
Speaker 1:I love that. That's so. Yeah, fantasy is something that I have not dipped my toes into in terms of writing like props to the authors, like there's just so. I feel like there's so much that goes into creating a fantasy novel, especially when it comes to world building and magical system, all of that stuff. So I'd love to hear a little bit about, yeah, what made you decide that fantasy was going to be what you write?
Speaker 2:Well I think it comes from. I grew up reading fantasy. I also grew up. One of the things my parents did that I've always appreciated is when I was a child. They would always say you know, here's your bedtime, but you can stay up 30 minutes longer only if you're reading. And they didn't care what we read, as long as we were reading.
Speaker 2:So I grew up being a voracious reader and I I got into fantasy, probably sometime around maybe middle school, and just fell in love with the genre, everything from tolkien to to, uh, robert Tolkien, to Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time series, to Brandon Sanderson and his Mistborn series, to, just, you know, all the classics. And then I just kept reading and reading and really kind of always I would read other things. I would read biographies and memoirs and you know, other kind of popular literature, but I always kind of would come back to fantasy. There's always something special about it to me, about just the escapism there, the being able to go into something completely new and different, and so for me, when I first thought about, you know, maybe possibly writing a book, I was also a religious studies major in college and so for me kind of the idea of exploring what the relationship between religious institutions and society and there's I don't think there's a better fit than a fantasy world where you can kind of have more control over. What does that religion look like? What does that realm and society look like? What is that interaction that you are looking to explore?
Speaker 2:And then coming up, you know, and really just these characters were dancing around in my head for a long time and just kind of in my mind it was like kind of like a sandbox of that world where they would interact with each other, interact with the world, and so it kind of slowly builds up and you build up this mythology and theology and history of this world and it becomes something that is just dancing in your mind when you drift off to sleep.
Speaker 2:The characters are interacting or doing something, and then it was just, you know, it took a long time to get it down on paper, and then through that process is also exploratory and discovering that, oh, I need to have this more well-defined or that more well-defined. And it's just to me it's a very exciting process of both being the creator of that world but then also seeing it through the eyes of your characters that you've poured yourself into, and seeing how are they exploring the things that I've kind of created? How are they playing in this sandbox and how does that change what maybe I originally thought it was going to be, originally thought it was going to be, and that's really, for me, the exciting part of writing. Is part of it having those ideas that you know you want to explore, but part of it is the creative process of writing and having these characters interact with the world and discovering more about your world through that. That, hopefully, your readers will then come to enjoy as much as you enjoy.
Speaker 1:Yes, I love that It's's. Yeah, there's something really magical about that sort of first draft where you get to meet all of the characters and figure out like what the heck's going on and uh, yeah, just kind of get the story out of your head and onto paper and just see kind of where it goes. I think that's a really cool part of the process, often, weirdly, one of the scariest slash, hardest parts of it too, because, yeah, you just there's something very vulnerable about writing that I don't think like.
Speaker 1:I didn't realize like this is kind of like therapy Okay.
Speaker 2:There is. I completely agree because it is. I completely agree because it is. I don't think, I don't think you can write without putting some of yourself in that, and for me it wasn't like there wasn't, there wasn't. There's not a Dan character in the book, but all of the characters that are in the book. There's a part of me that's seeing the world through their eyes. So there's there's part of me in all the different characters and that's.
Speaker 2:It is a very vulnerable thing. And when you're a writer and you're you get that first draft done and you're so excited, but then you're like I have to share this with people, wait a minute. That's a very, very anxiety producing and nerve wracking process. Because then once you, once you build up that courage to to say, hey, will you read this thing that I've spent months, years in my case it was over a decade you know toying with and putting out there. Then you want them to be done with it in an hour and because you want their feedback right away. But then you're like, well, no, it's gonna take them weeks or months to get through this, and so then it is a very nerve-wracking process but in the end I think it's really really.
Speaker 2:For me it's been really, really worth it and I've really enjoyed it. Because then now I have people I can talk about this world and these characters with, and and I can hear their feedback into hey, this worked or this didn't work, or I was confused here, or this part was really good, or you know when, when five or six people come back and say this part was really slow, then you realize it's that's, that's a me problem, that's an author problem. I had to deal with that and how can I make this something? You know that I thought I liked it and maybe I wanted it to be a little slow, but I don't know it's still too slow. So how can I deal with that? But so in the end it's rewarding, but it is anxiety producing to get there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's definitely one of the like a, a very vulnerable thing to share, that, that thing that you put your heart and soul into, for people to be like yeah, I didn't like it, cool Thanks. I mean, that's just art right. Like that's the nation, that's how it is Right. With anything, it's subjective. What I love, someone else will be like that's horrible. So it it. There is that logical part that understands that. But I think there, like you said that, that anxiety of like, oh like, still, it's scary, um, especially when I don't know it's it is such a a magical thing to be able to put these like characters that have been running around your head into paper and you just hope that people love them as much as you do. And, yeah, it can be hard sometimes when they don't.
Speaker 2:It's true, it can be, but at the same time, I think through the process of writing and then getting to know other writers through social media and going to writing conferences is, you know, I really come to respect that. You know what. This isn't for everybody, and that's okay. And someone is going to like, like my wife likes, a isn't for everybody, and that's okay. And someone is going to like, like my wife likes a completely different genre of books than I do. You know, she likes an easy rom-com beach read and I think that's fantastic for her and I want her to have wonderful, witty, flirtatious banter and I think that's that's the best and I'm really excited that that's what she likes. And I think that's the great thing about art, like you said, is that it might appeal to a lot of people. It might appeal to a narrow subset of people and that's okay. And I think I like a lot of authors. You know my primary audience was me. I wanted to write a book that.
Speaker 2:I liked and I just have to hope that other people will like the same thing. But my primary audience was me. I want to write the book that I want to read and that's what kept me excited, engaged, really kind of moving forward through the hard parts that we kind of stumble through.
Speaker 1:Yes, that's so true. I feel like. Yes. Also, you have to love it because you will read it 1001 times as well.
Speaker 1:So there is that element, right, but I think that that is what pulls so many authors in in the beginning of just there there's like there's a book that they want to read or there's a particular ending that just should have like they wanted it to be expanded upon. Like that's kind of what I I love is that there's like a little scene in a movie that you're like that could be a story. Um, so I love being able to put that onto paper and just sort of like bring it to life. It's such a. It's such a process. There's something that I wanted to ask about.
Speaker 1:When we were chatting through email, you were talking about rejection, and that is something that so many of us are very terrified of. I would love to hear a little bit of your take on that. Obviously, this book is like 10 years in the making and I think that's a huge thing to like remind people of. Is that it's okay if it takes time. You don't have to like rush through. But yeah, like navigating rejection, I'd love to hear kind of like how you don't lose your mind through that process.
Speaker 2:Well, I mean, I think rejection is a part. If you're going the route of trying to get an agent or go with a small publishing house, then I think you have to embrace rejection as part of the process. Had spent almost a thousand days querying this particular manuscript and received at least, I think, 115 rejections, I did print out the very first one that I got because I do feel like and I think if anyone's involved in writing communities, especially online, it is kind of a badge of honor to have your first rejection because it's going to come, you're going to get it. I still have it printed out as a reminder that this is part of the process and you do just have to get used to it. And it just goes back to what we were talking about earlier, that not everything is for everybody and the rejections I had to come to accept is it's not a rejection of me and who I am.
Speaker 2:And there could be a lot of different reasons for that rejection. It might have been maybe a query too early in the beginning and it really wasn't that great. I understand that I've edited it since then. It might be oh, the agent or the publisher might really like it, but they have another book that's very similar to it, has similar themes. Oh, the agent or the publisher might really like it, but they have another book that's very similar to it, has similar themes, and they don't want to compete against themselves. So you just have to really understand that it's not a rejection of you and who you are, and not necessarily that your book is bad. It's just it's not the right fit. It's a lot like bad. It's just it's not the right fit. Um, it's a lot like. It's a lot like dating, where you can go on a date with a perfectly nice person and it just doesn't click, it doesn't work out. It doesn't mean you're bad or they're bad. It just means that, hey, this did, this relationship did not work out. And that's what I think you're looking for when you're in that process of sending out query letters is I want to find a relationship that works. I want to find a relationship where the person who's going to be helping me sell this book is as excited about it as I am, and if you find that, then you need to hold on to it. I, hopefully, have found that.
Speaker 2:I think that I'm excited about working, working with my publisher, and so I think it just takes some time to get there sometimes. So you just, you keep going. You have ups and downs, it's hills and valleys, you take breaks, you you know, you go for a walk, you complain to your partner and your friends about how sucky this process is, but in the end it is what it is and it's not. I don't think whether you're traditionally published, self-published, with a small publisher. I don't think any.
Speaker 2:I think everyone will say the same thing that you have to have patience. This is not something for the impatient. It takes a long time to write a book, maybe not 10 years, like it did for me, impatient. It takes a long time to write a book, maybe not 10 years, like it did for me, but it does take a long time to get a beginning, a middle, an end, to go back to revise, to edit, to revise again, to edit again, to, in my case, take out a character that you really loved but didn't really fit with the story, to add in new things that you weren't there in the beginning. This is a long process and so I think there has to be an element of patience, um, that goes into it, which is not necessarily my strong suit, but it's something learning, uh, as I'm going through it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, those are great, great points. I feel like that's such a true thing. It can be easy, I think, especially with social media, obviously, like it's great, but there's this almost like this pressure of like if you're not writing, like a certain number of books like it seems like it needs to be quick, fast paced, like and art takes time, like it's OK, right, your story. I think really like honoring the story is as an important part of the process, and I feel like each, each story is very unique in the way in which they kind of like need to come through. So having that time is yeah, and just even the amount of time that you've probably grown as a writer from the first version to where it is now is like it's wild to see it like actually translate into something tangible. That's such a trip for me. I love reading my old writing, even though I'm like oh dear.
Speaker 2:We all have those oh dear stories or oh dear moment. Oh no, Definitely definitely.
Speaker 1:Right, but I think it's just, it's not a judgment. It's like wow, like look, I didn't, but I took that risk and I think that that's something really important to kind of like celebrate. Is that like you? That's the first step is writing that draft, that like maybe you think it's great, but maybe it's not like the most amazing book ever, um and but that's okay, because you can build on it and make it like what it needs to be and that's yeah, that's. That's something that I feel like is really an important reminder for people. I don't like to say books are bad either. It's just really like it's not, it's not for you maybe yeah, it's not for you, it's.
Speaker 1:It's something that you can you, if it's a draft like you can build on, like there's all sorts of things that you can do with that, and sometimes there's something really like comforting about like a extremely cheesy book yes, there is there's.
Speaker 2:You know there's something good about popcorn. It's not nutritious, but sometimes you like it. I think that's the same thing and the best thing I ever heard about, uh, a first draft, and something that I try to keep in mind is that the job of a first draft is to be done, is to have a beginning, a middle and an end, and that is an accomplishment in and of itself. There's no such thing as a bad first draft, because once you finish the draft, that is its job. Now the next part is revising, revising, editing, adding to it. But your first draft is never bad because you've finished the job that's. The job of a first draft is to have those components and give you something to then work on and build into something that's better.
Speaker 1:Mm. Yes, that is, it's so. That's such a great way of looking at it, because it's just getting the story out on paper and that's what you need to do. And some of those definitely a challenge sometimes, but it is it. It is it's the first step, because you can't edit it if it's not written or finished.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly, you can't edit a blank page, so a hundred percent, a hundred percent.
Speaker 1:So I would love to hear now, obviously your book is with a publisher, so how has that process been? Obviously, most of my conversations tend to be with self-published authors. So how obvious, like, this is your first book, so it might be a little different, obviously that you don't have like something to compare it to. But I would, yeah, I would just love to hear how that process has been for you.
Speaker 2:I, this whole process just writing in general is is just a new experience for me, and so the public you know, I, my, my aunt, who I love dearly, is a is a self-published indie author and she's just coming out with her fourth book and she has the ability to okay, she's done, she's done the beta reading, she's done the editing. Now she's got her cover designed and her book is going to be out, I think, sometime in mid to late March or maybe in April. And so you have a lot more control over your product and the timing of when and how you want to put it out. And so for me and as I think we both know and anyone who's listening to this who's a writer it's a very solitary process. It's characters dancing around in your mind that you're trying to get out onto paper, and it's just you, your mind and a blank piece of paper. And so when you turn that over to a publisher, you're giving up some level of control and some level of autonomy in the timing and what that's gonna do. Now, in return for that, you're getting expertise, you're getting another level of editing, you're getting input on cover design, you're getting their ability to push your book out to their audience in addition to your audience. So there's a trade-off that you're working with here.
Speaker 2:So it's you know, yeah, there's some level of frustration. I feel good about where my manuscript is. I want it to be out tomorrow, even if I was self-publishing. That's not a realistic thing to do, but you know. So for me it's it's again, it goes back to that patience, that this is not something that you know. You necessarily have all the controls that you want over and you just have to be patient.
Speaker 2:The other thing I like is, because it's a small press, I'm getting to know the other authors that that are part of that publishing house and that's been a fun experience as well. Just, I haven't met them in person yet, but I've, you know, met them through Facebook groups and online. You know now with the publisher that the writing community in and of itself is very positive and I really like that. It seems like everyone's cheering everybody on with other writers who also have a home there, where we're all kind of supporting and cheering each other on and hoping for the best as books are coming out this year and next year. It's a lot of fun to be kind of part of that community. Slash. I hesitate to use the word family, but you know that community of writers that you're now kind of in this bond with.
Speaker 1:Yes, that's. I feel like that's so true, like creating that community is like key, because writing is such a solitary, lonely experience sometimes. So I feel like having that is so, so important, whether it is through like a publishing house or like just in general, having that like there's just something magical about connecting with people that even if they're not in your genre, they get it, they, they know what goes into writing and the process and the tears and frustration and all of the things.
Speaker 2:The good days and the bad days, and the days when you cranked out 3000 words and the days that you struggled to crank out 200 words, and they're all terrible and you know that, but you still got through those 200 and you know that's worth celebrating and that's worth. You know that's, that's progress, that's moving forward.
Speaker 1:Yes, right, like it's. Celebrating all of those little milestones is so, so important because, as you mentioned, like it's the long game, like really that. I feel like that's what we're. It can be easy to kind of get forget about that. I think when, when you're writing a book, is that like it, it's a process, right, like to establish yourself, hopefully get more books out. Like it's not a instant thing, overnight, magical like bestseller right away. I mean, maybe that happens, but I think also that would be really scary and overwhelming. So I kind of like the slow growth, um aspect of things where you just need to yeah, you're just it's not about it all happening right away, uh, and all of those small things are like huge wins, just to get your book in the hands of people. It's like that's, that's epic.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I'm, I'm looking forward to when that happens. So I'm very excited about, about, about that. And and you know, for me one thing that helps, as, as I'm writing, you know, I, I, I have a writing partner partner, someone who I've been friends with for about 20 years and we meet about once a month and exchange whatever we're working on and give feedback. And because we have such a good, you know, because we know each other so well, it's very honest feedback. You know, I can point out like, hey, man, that dialogue was really terrible.
Speaker 2:Or hey, in this scene the cowboy has a hat and he throws it away and two seconds later he's taking off his hat to wipe his brow. Why is the hat just magically reappearing? And he, for me, we're like, hey, your dialogue, everyone sounds exactly the same. Why aren't they different? And so to have those critique partners that can go through that process with you in real time and give you support and real feedback. And then, as you said, celebrate all the different milestones. Celebrate getting that first draft done, celebrate getting through a round of edits, celebrate sending off your first query letter, celebrate getting your first rejection, those are all worth, you know, a glass of good whiskey and and a fine cigar if that's your thing.
Speaker 1:That's so true. It is it right Like it's. I can't remember the stat of like. However many people like start a book versus like finish the draft versus publish it, but the number just gets smaller and smaller. So, really like it's a huge accomplishment to get a book written, even if, at the end of the day, it's for you only at this point, like who's to say you'll, you won't come back to it, or whatever. So I think that that's such a great like. The more you write, the better you become, and really creating, yeah, relationships with people that can help support you along the way is, like, so key.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, absolutely, and it just makes it more fun too. So that's the other part of it. It's just, it's got to be fun. Most of us I don't, I don't know about you, know everybody but most of us are doing this as, as you know, as a part-time thing, as a hobby, as something that we're trying to get into, and we have our day jobs. So you got to keep it fun. You got. You got to why it's so important to celebrate all the little things definitely, and it's.
Speaker 1:it is really quite uh wild to see these made-up characters uh on paper, and you're like, oh my gosh, I love the banter like and, and I wrote that, like, that's really amazing.
Speaker 2:When you go back and read something like, wow, this is actually pretty. Sometimes you have those like oh, this is moments. But you have those other moments where you do go back and you read a scene and you're like, wow, I did write that I, maybe I can do this.
Speaker 1:So true, I love it when that happens. It's always. I always celebrate those moments when I'm like oh, like this made me laugh, great, like I hit it. Will other people think it's funny? I don't know, but at least I did. Yes, 100%. Well, I would love to hear what would be one piece of advice that you would have for someone just starting out their writing journey. Now, I know we've touched on some things that might be relevant, but maybe if there's something else that you found really, really helpful in your early days of taking that leap, I mean, I'm going to go with two things.
Speaker 2:The first thing is just write. The first thing is just write, just get your story out. I fell into the trap, especially as I started, of going back and revising and revising and revising as I was writing, and it was almost an avoidance tactic of moving the story forward Because, wait, I have to get this chapter, I have to get this scene, I have to get this sentence just right, and then I can go on. But I think it's really important. Just just push yourself through. Cause again the first draft. Your job is just to finish the draft. You can go back and you can wordsmith and you can. You know, if you think about it as building a house, you know you got to get the structure up, you got to get the drywall in place. You can go back and decorate and put up the paintings and pick out the furniture. You can do that later. But if you don't finish, you're going to end up with a really beautiful room with no roof and no rest of your house to go with it. Just have to find a way to keep going.
Speaker 2:And my second piece of advice is ignore all pieces of advice that you get from people. Yes, that sounds contradictory, but do what works for you. Like, I think it's great to hear from other writers what advice that they have, but part of it is, if someone gives a piece of advice and it doesn't work for you, feel free to chuck it out the window. There's no rules of the game of what you have to do to do this. For me.
Speaker 2:I like writing in the morning. That's when I feel most creative and energetic, and so I would say, yeah, you should definitely get a cup of coffee and write in the morning, but there are other people who write better at midnight or in the evening, so they should not listen to my advice. Do what works for you, find what works for you and it might mean listening to all of these podcasts for all the different authors and getting ideas and then try out what works for you and don't be afraid just to reject advice because you think, oh well, I really liked that author and this is how they do it. Well, great, it works for them, but it might not work for you and it's okay to just reject that advice and move on.
Speaker 1:So true, and I think really understanding kind of what your life looks like and what's realistic is a really important thing. Because, yeah, if uh, the author that you love is like a full-time author and they're single writing, you know it, thousands of words a day is probably feasible for them, but if you have a job or kids or a million other responsibilities, that might just not be possible. So, like you said, really just try it on, see what works, have fun like, and make messes right Like. Isn't that what Ms Frisell says?
Speaker 2:Make some beautiful messes, and that's okay, and it's okay to find to try things and it doesn't work. Great, you know what you? You have now tried something and it doesn't work and you now don't have to try it again 100.
Speaker 1:That's so. Yeah, it's. It's all about your unique process and what works for you. Uh, because that's like whatever gets the story written.
Speaker 2:That's what you got to do yeah, whatever gets it out and gets it out into the world so that we can enjoy it. Um, because that's the thing, I think that that I think I want other writers especially those who are questioning whether they should or not that there's someone out there waiting for your book that wants your book. It might be future, you, it might be, you know you, 10 years down the road, who really needs that book. But it might be someone else who's you might not even know, but there's, there's a fan out there who wants to read your book and will love it.
Speaker 1:Yes, I love that. I feel like that's the advice that keeps me going Amazing, awesome. Well, I would love for you to share how people can get in touch with you and follow along and stay up to date to when your book is out. So please, please, share all the details.
Speaker 2:All right. Well, yeah, if you, if you, the best place to find me is. I do have a website, so it's just dandesignmartincom, and on there I have a section called writing on writing, where I write about my process in writing and my ups and downs and you can see some of my frustrations and triumphs and then fails, because it's all part of the process. So that's where you'll get kind of more thoughtful consideration. But otherwise I'm also on Blue Sky and Threads and Instagram and all of it's the same. It's at Dan Desai Martin, just they're squished together. So follow along. I post mostly about writing and also some about politics. So you know you might like it, you might not, but we'll have fun.
Speaker 1:I love it. I love it Amazing. Well, everything will be linked in the show notes so it'll be super easy for people to click through and find you and stay up to date for when your book is out. But it was lovely chatting with you.
Speaker 2:And you too. Thank you so much. It's been such a pleasure to be here.
Speaker 1:Thanks so much for listening to today's episode. I would love if you would leave a review and also, if you love the author that we chatted with, go find them on social media and hype them up, comment on their stuff, share their work. Even if you can't buy the book, these kind of things are great ways of supporting indie authors and getting their book in front of new readers. And if you are a writer or author in need of a developmental editor, please reach out. I would love to chat. Everything is linked in the show notes and it would be an absolute honor to be able to get eyes on your novel. So thanks again and listen to the next episode.
