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Book Shop Chats:
Welcome to Book Shop Chats, your go to podcast for indie authors and learning insight into what it takes to write a book (HINT: You can do it too!!)
Join authors as they share their personal journeys, successes, and challenges, providing you with unique insights into the writing process. The discussions explore into various aspects of storytelling, from character development to plot structuring, ensuring you have a well-rounded understanding of the craft.
Whether you're just starting out or have published multiple works, this podcast is your companion in the pursuit of storytelling excellence. Tune in, gather inspiration, and let your passion for writing flourish alongside a community that celebrates the art of the written word.
Book Shop Chats:
Between Romance and Mystery: The Art of Blending Genres with Ashley Hawthorne
Ashley Hawthorne reveals her journey from writing fan fiction during COVID lockdowns to becoming a published author of contemporary romantic suspense novels. She discusses how finding an online writing community transformed her passion into a sustainable career.
• Found a supportive Discord server with experienced authors who guided her publishing journey
• Writes contemporary romantic suspense where "romance drives the plot and the mystery adds to the stakes"
• Published with a small press that handles covers and editing while giving her creative input
• Uses the mantra "firm in goals, flexible in methods" to balance writing with homeschooling
• Recommends finding beta readers who give honest but kind feedback
Author Bio-
Ashley Hawthorne writes contemporary romantic suspense. A soft-hearted idealist, she writes stories that take her character to dark places, but always with an eye on what love means to us, how far we'll go to get it, and what we're willing to give up to keep it. She lives in Texas with her husband, their two teenagers, and far too many rescue pets.
Book Blurb-
Every old house has its secrets...
When Grayson Barlow's grandfather dies under mysterious circumstances, he's forced to move back to his hometown of Widow's Point. After twelve years of running from his past, he's in no hurry to return to Barlow House or to confront the memories it holds, but he knows he now has to take care of the elderly grandmother he'd left behind.
His childhood home is exactly the way he remembered it, except his grandfather is gone and the house has gained a feisty new dog and a beautiful new caretaker, both of whom seem determined to protect the only family member he has left, even if that means driving him out before he has time to unpack his bags.
He wants nothing more than to leave, but he can't bring himself to break his grandmother's heart again. Staying means making peace, at least on the surface, with Becka Simmons, the enticing hellion who's determined to make his life miserable.
Becka is as grumpy as her pint-sized guard dog, but as he begins to understand her, he has two impossible revelations. The first is that he's in love with her. The second is that she may have killed his grandfather.
LINKS:
Website: https://www.ashleyhawthorne.net/
Amazon author page: https://www.amazon.com/stores/Ashley-Hawthorne/author/B0C2NCLRWQ?ref=sr_ntt_srch_lnk_15&sr=1-15&isDramIntegrated=true&shoppingPortalEnabled=true
About Victoria:
Hey there, I’m Victoria! As a writer and developmental editor, I specialize in helping busy writers bring their publishing dreams to life without the overwhelm. Editing doesn’t have to feel like pulling teeth—it's the magic that transforms your story from “meh” to masterpiece!
Here’s how I can help:
📖 FREE Manuscript Prep Workbook: Take the stress out of editing with simple steps to organize your revisions.
Grab it HERE
📝 Developmental Editing: Get expert feedback that elevates your manuscript, strengthens your story, and polishes your characters.
✍️ 1:1 monthly support Writer's Haven: Revitalize your creativity, map out your novel, and unleash your authentic voice.
Your story deserves to shine, and I’m here to make it happen. Let’s turn your writing dreams into a reality!
📱 IG: @editsbyvictoria
🌐 Website: https://www.victoriajaneeditorial.com/links
Oh hey, it's Victoria from Victoria Jane Editorial and your host of Bookshop Chats. This podcast is all about authors, writing and the magic that goes into storytelling. We cover all of the things that go into writing a book, from the creative process, from taking your idea to a first draft, creating and cultivating community within the author space, marketing all of the fun things. If you are a reader, a wannabe writer or an author, you will find tips and tricks that suit whatever level you are at. So I hope that you enjoy and you are unfortunately, or fortunately going to find many more books to add to your TBR, so I will invite you to sit back and listen to the episode. Welcome back to Bookshop Chats. In today's episode, I am chatting with Ashley Hawthorne. Welcome to the podcast. Thank you so much for having me. I'm looking forward to chatting with you today. I am very excited to hear all about your books, so I'm just going to give you the floor and let you dive straight in, because I feel like somebody else needs to hear about it too.
Speaker 2:Thank you. I am like I said. I'm Ashley Hawthorne. I write contemporary romantic suspense. I have two books that are already out, that is Deliver Me and Death Sentence, and then I actually have two more that are coming out this year and next year with my same publisher and that is a duology. So those two will actually be connected.
Speaker 2:The first two were standalones and are not not set in the same universe, but the ones that are coming out this year and next year are going to be set in the same sort of small town. So those ones are gonna kind of be a little bit of a connected story there, which was an interesting thing for me, having never written a sequel before. But they all kind of have to do with, like I said, it's a romance, so you have the love story part of it and then you also have sort of an element of a mystery or a thriller or something that kind of goes along in there. But I say the romance is what drives the plot and then the mystery sort of adds to the stakes and that kind of stuff to it. So those are, those are my babies and my first. We'll say hopefully first four books and that there will be more coming eventually, but that's what I've been focused on so far.
Speaker 1:That is amazing. That is like huge. I feel like it for is that you are winning. That is that is epic. Huge. I feel like it for is that you are winning. That is that is epic. I would love to hear a little bit more about, like, your writing journey. Like how did you decide that you actually wanted to write a book?
Speaker 2:Well, I had always wanted to be a writer, but I never felt like I understood the process of becoming an author well enough to actually do it. You know as well, as I went through school, I was like, oh, you're so good at writing, you should be a writer. I was like, yeah, that's, that's like the dream goal, but I don't have any idea how to do that. And it wasn't until we went on lockdown for COVID and I was bored and I found a fandom space where you're like, yeah, to write fan fiction, that'll teach you how to how to write. You know how to write like fiction. And I was like, yeah, I can do that.
Speaker 2:And through that community, not only do they teach me how to sit down and actually plot a book and actually write a fiction story that was long enough to be like a whole book. I met other people that were actually self publishing or traditional publishing, that were also kind of like writing fanfiction on the side, and they walked me through the whole process, from my first story to actually getting my first book published. So I'm still in a Discord server with the people that taught me how to be a writer. So I feel like I was really lucky in that that I found the right people at just the right time when I actually had time to sit down and write. But that was it for me. I got super lucky to have friends that knew what they were doing.
Speaker 1:That is huge. I think fan fiction is such a great gateway into writing because it does some of the hard work for you, right. Like that's kind of where I started, too is that like you've got the characters and you've already got like maybe the scene or maybe it's an alternate universe or whatever it is, but it's there's things that are already done. It kind of took like the the daunting part out of writing and then, and then you kind of just get to play, which is really yeah, I found that really fun. I think mine is still up somewhere it's not very good, but you know what I learned?
Speaker 1:a lot so that's that's what matters.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think that's the important part, is it because you know it's a low stakes way to practice those skills. And something that I really liked about it was you know you post that fan fiction, you put it up online and you get people that are. You know they're really cheering for you, you know they want to see you get better. They love to point out things that they are enjoying about the story. So you really get that sort of instant feedback in an honest way that I think you don't necessarily get from your friends and family, Because, you know, even if it's like my family is super, super supportive but I can't go to them and be like, hey, can you read this and give me feedback, because they have no idea what they're doing either.
Speaker 1:So I love the community aspect of it. I think it's my favorite part. Yeah, that's huge, especially because writing is something that is often very isolating, and I think having a community is key. And I love now that, yeah, there's so many ways to like make writing feel a little bit more accessible. I think it just feels like it's like you can do it if that makes sense, like I think you know, even 10 years ago, the thought of like writing a book felt like well, there's only traditionally published. I think self-publishing was probably around then but that was like, kind of like the only way that I thought that you could do it. Or or just felt like a like, a very like you had to have all of these skill sets in order to do it. But then, like you said, you just like stumble upon the right group at the right time and the right people who can really just it's like anything. You, you, you get better by doing it and the more you learn, the better you become at writing a book.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I like to tell people writing is a solitary activity, but publishing is a team sport.
Speaker 2:You know you really have to have that.
Speaker 2:I guess you have to, but I feel like it's a whole lot easier if you have those people that have already been there, that know what they're doing, that can give you feedback or advice, and I think it has become a lot more accessible, not just because of self-publishing being an option, but just because you don't have to have a local writing group that's interested in the same kind of stories that you write.
Speaker 2:So that makes it a lot more accessible for people to live in small towns or things like that, where they don't have access to that stuff locally. You can always go online and find a group online or a Discord server or something that have people that are in your genre, that have specific feedback for the kind of stories that you want to tell, people that are in your genre that have specific feedback for the kind of stories that you want to tell, and I think that just makes it so much easier for us to sort of navigate that publishing world, which can be so confusing yeah, I think that's key is having that, um, yeah, just having people that have either walked before you, that kind of know the kind of know the ropes, and to be able to get like feedback from the specific genre that you're writing in, I feel like is so important Because, yeah, it's great, like you said, if friends and family they're like, oh, great book.
Speaker 1:I mean, I made my mom read my book and she's like, oh, it's good. And then I'm like, oh, no, no, no, it was not, but thank you. Yeah, it's definitely one of those things that like just to get that constructive feedback so that you can make the story as strong as it as it can be, so that readers actually like connect with it and are engaged with it. And I feel like, especially for your genre of writing, in that suspense, like there is that element of just really needing to have that kind of like just pacing, that, that sort of like intensity with it.
Speaker 2:That is sometimes hard to see when you're the one that is writing it, because we just miss that stuff it's hard to know if you're making a story suspenseful when you already know what the the answer is to the mystery. You know it's like am I, am I putting down enough clues that you can look back at the end and be like, oh yeah, she, she really did kind of basically tell me, but not so many that you see it coming. I think for me, when I write something that has a mystery element to it, I always want to do have there to be sort of like multiple possible answers. You want there to be what the character thinks is happening and then what's actually happening, and those should be two different but both plausible answers. And that's hard to know if you're doing that right when you already know who the killer is or you know what the answer is to the mystery. So I think it's really important to have people who can read that for you and tell you whether you're hitting all the right beats or not.
Speaker 1:That's a great point, did you Like? How did you decide that you wanted to write this sort of specific genre? I feel like it's something that I don't often hear about. Maybe I am living under a rock, but also it's just I. It's something that I is really kind of intriguing. I never thought to like blend kind of both like the thriller mystery and romance, because that's that's a really fun energy.
Speaker 2:I feel like rom-coms are really really popular right now and I do love to read's a really fun energy.
Speaker 2:I feel like rom-coms are really really popular right now and I do love to read a good rom-com. But I feel like for me you know my writing I always have a little bit of something that's a little bit darker going on in there and with me, I grew up reading Nora Roberts books and she just always did like those really good romantic suspense and when I sat down to write my own stories I was just like that just kind of seemed to be what I gravitated to first. You know, I liked the idea of a love story and I wanted that to be the heart of it, but I wanted there to be something that had, you know, to me felt like a little bit higher stakes. You know, um, and that's the. To me that was just a good meeting point. I've also written some that I'm actually querying right now, like a horror romance, which is a little bit of a whole different thing, but I'm still looking for an agent for that one, so we haven't quite got off the ground for it.
Speaker 2:But I like romance when it's mixed up with something that's a little bit. A little bit darker in theme.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like you said, it really does like amp up the stakes and that like intensity and the emotion and it just, yeah, it feels different. I feel like when you, when you're reading a book, that's that kind of like pulls you in that like in a million different directions of like where's this going to go? And then then you've got the romance aspect of it too, that you're like, oh my gosh, thank goodness they finally got together.
Speaker 1:I love it. I love it. So we were talking a little bit before we hit record and you are publishing with like a small publisher, so I would love to hear a little bit more about like that experience, because I don't often talk to many authors that utilize small presses. It seems to be self-published or traditionally published.
Speaker 2:So yeah, any insight? Oh yeah, and I thought about it when I was, when I had my first book, because it was my first one's, not necessarily, I would say, like a traditional, what you would think of as a romantic suspense. It has, it's, a plot that is, you know, a little bit, I think, hard to sell. And I queried it and the agents that asked for the full and read the whole book were very, very nice. They said, you know, we really like the story, we think it's a great story, but we don't know how we would sell it. Right, you know, it's just kind of in a weird place genre-wise. We're not really sure that we could get an editor that would be willing to take a chance on it.
Speaker 2:And I was looking at my options for self-publishing and how much that was going to require for me and time and money and stuff and thinking, you know, I don't know if I have the ability to do that because, you know, on top of being an author, I homeschool my kids. So it's like I already kind of have a lot of stuff going on time wise. And to me that's sort of the small press is kind of like in kind of an in between space where my publisher handles my, my cover, my editing, that kind of stuff, not just you know, know they cover it financially for me and still gives me, I think, a little bit more input into things like what the cover looks like and that kind of stuff that maybe some trad published offers would get, where the publisher just kind of decides and they don't really get a say. Like when I get my public, my or my cover, I get several options. You know where. I send them notes and stuff and then they'll send me six or seven different designs and I can say, oh well, I like this one, but you know, maybe the font on it is kind of hard to read or whatever, and they'll change that for me. So it kind of falls kind of like really in between that where I don't have to pay for everything up front on my own and I still retain a little bit of more creative control but I'm not having to do everything like myself. So I think for me it was just kind of that sweet spot and I've said I've published two books with them already and I've got two more coming out.
Speaker 2:I do have to do a lot of my own marketing, right. So that is one thing I think if you're thinking like marketing, it's not for you. You don't want to spend a lot of time on social media selling your own books. That you know. Going for a bigger publisher might be a better route for you, but for me it's worked out pretty well. I think I've learned a lot now about the marketing stuff. So in the future if I wanted to do self-publishing, it wouldn't feel like I was taking on so much all at once because I would only be having to be learning the stuff that my publisher has been doing for me instead of because I've already learned a lot about the marketing and stuff. So now I can learn about the cover and the editing and that kind of stuff and it would be more of a gradual process instead of just kind of jumping off into the deep end of self publishing and all of those responsibilities. It's a lot, I feel like that's such an interesting way to.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's just so fascinating to hear about kind of what yeah, what they take on, what you don't have to worry about. I think, even like just with the nature of how social media is now, a lot of traditionally published authors are still doing a lot of marketing themselves.
Speaker 2:Um, just because I think that's what sells it is, it does, and I think the one thing I've noticed is that, um, you know the those, those authors with the big publishers are doing a lot of the face-to-face marketing and stuff. The real benefit that you get from a bigger publisher that you may not get from a smaller one is the bigger publishers are the ones that handle getting you into your bookstores. They're the ones that handle getting you into Target, into Walmart, into Barnes, noble, that kind of stuff, whereas a smaller publisher probably doesn't have the connections to be able to do something like that. So, even if you're still having to do like the social media aspect of it, you're still getting that benefit of your book being on the shelf where people can go in and see it and pick it up and take it home, even if they're not necessarily on social media yes, that is such a good point, right like they do have that sort of it's a big business, right.
Speaker 1:So they've got the money and the connections and all of the things behind them that make it a lot easier for them to, yeah, connect with those big um companies that are buying large volumes of books so true. I love, yeah, I just I find that really fascinating to hear like all of that sort of like back and stuff that just feels right, like you think that you've written your book and then you're like, oh my gosh, it's done now.
Speaker 2:And then, yeah, I think that's the big thing that a debut author always kind of gets hit with they're like oh yeah, my book is published, I'm done. And then you realize that you have really just, you've just gotten started. You, you've just gotten started. You know, that's literally like step one is get the book published and then everything else kind of comes after that, because now you have to sell it and you have to go and you have to do podcasts and your social media and, depending on whether you're doing self-publish, you got to figure out how to run your ads and like it's just a whole business that you're doing, where you are the brand, whether you're, you know, publishing with a bigger publisher or doing it yourself. You have just become the face of this thing that really you have to run. Like this whole it's just yeah it's a lot.
Speaker 1:Yeah, definitely, it's one of those things that you don't yeah, you don't quite realize.
Speaker 1:And I think to even just realizing that often it does take a couple books before you really kind of find your your footing and that audience and stuff like that to really like, yeah, just build kind of a name for yourself. And it kind of takes that time and it's not like an instant. You know an instant thing overnight success, if you will, because I don't think that's really true. I feel like you know it. Just it it's one of those things that it's been building for a while and then suddenly it explodes right.
Speaker 1:So, that's a really, really important thing to remember is that you are yeah, you're playing the long game and it definitely takes time to build yeah, build out all of the books that you probably want to write, right?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think it's a lot of invisible labor and I think I'm not saying nobody ever hits it big on their first book or the first book that's published, right. But you know, a lot of times you don't see how many books they wrote before that that didn't get sold. Or you know a lot of people that you may think, hey, you know, that's the first book I've ever heard of, so it's probably the first book they sold, only to look back and realize that might've been their seventh or eighth book and you know, none of the other ones went big and you just didn't know it, you know. So I think you've, you've really got to kind of pace yourself and realize that. You know, for most of us it's going to be a long process and you know the difference between success and failure is really more in persistence than it is anything else.
Speaker 1:Yes, that's a great point of like. It's just it's I can't remember. There's like a quote of something about like the difference of failure and success is like how many times you get up, or something along the lines of that. I just keep getting knocked down but I'm still going. It's hard, but it's that. I think that's really what is that. That's how it works, is that you just keep going and eventually it does click and you learn so much too. I think that's something that's a really important reminder for for anyone whether you're kind of like just starting your your book or finished your first one is that you become a better writer with each story, right Like you. So it's the more you write better writer with each story right Like you. So it's the more you write, the better writer you become. And I think that's a really cool thing to like be able to look back and see like okay, this is where I started and this is where I am now, and to see that growth, like physically see it, it's really cool.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think you know you just you put so many hours into writing a book and you don't feel like you've changed that much, until you go back and read a book that you wrote a couple of years ago and you're like, wow, there is so much about this that I would do differently today. You know, it's not that I don't think it's a good book. I still think it's a good book. It's just I know I've grown as a writer and that I have by writing for my upcoming books. You know the ideas that I still have that I haven't written yet, because I know I'm going to take all of those new skills and be able to write a better book next time.
Speaker 1:Yes, that's so true. I would love to hear a little bit more about, like just trying to think of this question that I just had and it just left me, that I just add and it just left me Well, good thing I can edit this part out the magic of the post-production if you will because my brain just kind of went on a vacation. Okay, it'll come back. Maybe it was important, I don't know.
Speaker 2:Um so I had it no, take your time, I'm not in a hurry um, it was a good one too.
Speaker 1:That's annoying, uh, that's the problem. When I don't write it down or like scribble like a note, like I just totally forget. Oh, community, that's what I was trying to talk about, that's it okay. So, um, obviously, when we, like you first mentioned like writing, um, your, your community is kind of what pulled you in, uh, how, like, how do you find, like do you find, those online groups to be the most beneficial when it comes to like creating that sort of like writing group, or have you ever like made it work in in person?
Speaker 2:well, the thing with me and that's probably unique to me is I have really intense social anxiety. So meeting people in person for me is really really hard. You know, I'm great with people most of the time, once like I've gotten to know them, but to go to a group of strangers is really really hard, hard for me. So I do most of my writing stuff online, you know, I think it's just I've used my social media as an author to make friends and then those friends kind of connect me with other people and that's kind of how I found my online things.
Speaker 2:There's always people on the like hey, new writers, I'm starting a Discord server for this. Or you know, doing a group chat on this particular social media thing and server for this. Or you know, doing a group chat on this particular social media thing. And I say, if you're looking for friends anytime, you know, get in those social media things, talk to people. When somebody offers to let you into a group, join it. It may not be the right group for you, but if you do that enough times, you will find something that works for you, right, whether it's focuses on new authors or your genre, or you know. You know you're gonna find something where people are like you in some kind of way, and you'll find the ones that you click with, that you get along with, and that's how I have made my friends.
Speaker 2:I've joined a lot of Discord servers where I've been, like the vibe in here is great but not quite for me, you know. And then I just like, okay, you guys have fun, you know, and then I'll leave and try the next one, and through that kind of trial and error process I've managed to make some really good friends and some really good groups that I've been part of for years. So if you are like me and online is your thing, that's. That's how I've met my people.
Speaker 1:That's a great point of just like really making sure I especially when you are getting like feedback, I feel like and critique and you really want to find the right kind of group or the right person that is going to actually be supportive and helpful and that's going to get you. You know it's honest, but nice, honest, nice feedback that doesn't crush your soul.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think people don't talk about that enough it really is. When it comes to finding critique partners or beta readers or whatever, you need to treat that like you would treat any other friendship. You need to have somebody that is going to treat you with kindness and respect, that is going to give you the kind of honesty that works best for you. And if you find somebody and you try it and it's not working, you know either they're giving you you feel like they're afraid to hurt your feelings so they're not being honest about what's not working, or they're running all over you and they're not being honest about what's not working, or they're running all over you and they're not telling you anything good that you're doing.
Speaker 2:It's okay to just, if this isn't working for me and try somebody else. You don't have to keep going back to somebody who's not helping you in the way that you feel like you need to be helped. The beta reading being a critique partner, that is stuff that takes a certain level of skill because you want to be able to highlight what is working as well as what's not working. You know it's. It is a relationship. You know you have to have that back and forth and that kind of mutual respect and it is okay to say when it's not working for you and try again that's.
Speaker 1:That's super important. I think it's. Yeah, like doing it makes me so sad not to be able to like celebrate what's working in like an author's manuscript like I I, I would just have to like you have's working in like an author's manuscript Like I, I would just have to like you have to. I feel like it's really important. Yeah, you do.
Speaker 2:I think you do because if you don't, you run the risk of them changing something that is working, you know, because they didn't know that was something that was going well. So I mean it's important for their feelings. I also think it's important for the manuscript to be like this is the part stuff. I think that's also like valuable feedback. Yeah, that's true, right.
Speaker 1:Of like this is, especially if it's like a dialogue, or they get that like flirty banter, really like on point, like that's something that they can utilize throughout the whole manuscript and just be able to like, refer back to, like, oh, this is how I kind of structured it, or this, this is what really like hit the right kind of points and stuff like that. So I think that that's a really great reminder of like the good feedback is also helpful, right, like it's not just like, oh, look at how good I am, it can, it can highlight, oh, like I actually was able to put this concept of showing the reader, not telling them, what needs to happen here. So so, yeah, it's, it's wild, the amount of of things that go into writing that you didn't quite know about. Amazing, amazing.
Speaker 1:Well, I would love to hear what would be one piece of advice that you might have for somebody who is like just starting out their writing journey, and I mean, obviously you've touched on like finding the community, but is there anything else that you found really helpful, maybe in your season of life, because you're a busy mom and you homeschool, right like that? I understand that, like having kids, like it's a lot. So I would love yeah, I'd love to hear how you made that work, um, while also doing all of the other things that you do.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I like to say I am firm in my goals and flexible in my methods. So you know, I know my goal is to get the book written, and that means. But how I get there can change from book to book or even sometimes from day to day. You know, I may have had for like for a while, or it's like I had a certain time frame in which I could sit down and get my writing done between 2 and 4 or whatever and then something about my husband's schedule or the kids' schedule may change or something like that, and now that time frame doesn't work for me anymore and I have to change it.
Speaker 2:Or I may find that plotting one book in a certain way really works for me, but then when I go to plot the next book, it's not working and I have to try a different method. I think sometimes we get so locked into, like this is what works for me, that when it stops working, we fight that for so long before admitting like, hey, let's just try something else. You know, and I feel like for me I have definitely gotten stuck where I've been, like this is what works, this is what I have to do, and then, as soon as I give myself permission to try a different tactic. I stopped fighting, you know, later the kids you know I'm about to stop fighting myself and actually trying different things. It really opens up that possibility again and I find it's much easier to just kind of make that little shift than to fight against the schedule or whatever.
Speaker 1:That's so smart, right? I feel like the more that I try to set up the perfect writing routine, the like less time I actually sit down to write right, right, like you just don't exactly what it is.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and. I just don't do it. Yeah, I think so. It just comes down like me being. I'm a perfectionist about certain things and I get so locked into having to do it a certain way that it ends up being self-defeating, and it's like it doesn't matter how you get the book written. It doesn't matter what time you write it, or whether you write it on the computer or on your phone, or whether you're using a three-act plot structure or something else. The thing that matters is that you get the book onto the page.
Speaker 1:However, you have to do it a hundred percent right, like you gotta work with your season of life and like it's just whatever. You know 20 minutes is better than no minutes right like it's you gotta do it and even like 100 words right, like all that stuff adds up and I think it can be easy to to underestimate that or like just downplay it. I definitely am guilty of that sort of like all or nothing thinking. If I didn't write you know a thousand words, then it's a failure or whatever story it is.
Speaker 1:But it's really it's not right Like you're still getting stuff down, you're still like moving the story forward or whatever. So, yeah, it's, it's wild, those subtle little like reframes and how perfectionism sneaks in and kind of like tries to derail you. And then you're like, great, I'm doing nothing because I'm trying to make a perk of it, right? So true, yeah, it's, it's, it's wild, it's, it's just one of those things that you, you have to just constantly show up and practice, and some days it's a lot easier than other days.
Speaker 2:Definitely, and I think that part of it's just accepting the fact that that's always going to be true. It doesn't matter how many books you've done, it doesn't matter how high up on the bestseller list you're sitting, some days are still going to be better than others and you're still going to have failures. You know that's. Having a failure or a bad day or something that doesn't work out doesn't mean that you're a bad author. It doesn't mean that you need to quit. It just means that that's just part of the writing process that everybody experiences and you just got to let it roll off and try again, a different day yes, that's so true.
Speaker 1:Like you, because we never know all of the backstory that goes into all of those, like you know, best selling authors, books, or all of the things, or how many times they're cried about. You know how horrible it is or what, what. Like we don't see that and I think it can be easy for for us to get like stuck on that sort of like you know the magical makeover at the end, the great reveal, and then like we miss all the the cool stuff that happens in between that and just how. Yeah, that messy first draft is kind of the foundation and all of the things right, and it just has to, it has to exist and you get to grow and learn and that's that's the magic of writing a book.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, I just think there's something to be said. You know that the value of it is a lot of times found in that sort of messy process, because it doesn't matter how well I do that outline or how much pre-planning I do, I find a lot of the magic of the book actually comes in those little spaces that I didn't plan for and it's really found in the mess and the effort. And that part of being, I think, a happy writer is just kind of embracing the fact that that's just. You know, it's going to be messy, and learning to enjoy that part of the process.
Speaker 1:Yes, that's definitely such a like it's. It's especially if you struggle with perfectionism. It can be quite a like sticky feeling of like you mean, I don't, I don't have control over this outcome and it's not gonna right.
Speaker 1:And I think to like constantly reminding myself that there's no such thing as a perfect book right, there's no such thing. And what one person loves, somebody else might think it's the worst thing ever. And you really have to just like stay true, to like your story that you're telling and the characters and all of that stuff, and really just trust that that process is going to lead you to where it needs to.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's very hard to do, but I think it's worth putting in that effort to remind yourself that you are telling a story that nobody else is going to tell exactly the way that you could. I think that's a real big one for helping to like fend off that jealousy, when you see, because we just assume we see everybody else doing well and we assume we are struggling uniquely because we only see the highlights of everybody else's story, you know. But to remind ourselves they are also struggling. They are also not writing a perfect book. There are also people out there that don't like what they're writing, even though we may think it's great. I think those are all great things to just to keep in mind. That can kind of help you to control some of the negative emotions that come along with this, because it is you put so much of your heart into it. I think it's hard not to have some kind of negative feelings around the whole process.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that makes perfect sense, right, like you are really putting your heart and soul into these, this story, and, yeah, just knowing that it's, it's going to be available for people to, you know, tell you that they don't like it is a hard thing, but that's the right. Yeah, stay off of your Goodreads. Don't read your own reviews. You know there's things you can do to make it a little bit less stressful, but, yeah, there's always going to be somebody out. There's be like that sucks. You're like thanks. Yeah, thanks for tagging me.
Speaker 1:I'm so glad you did that into it, yeah yeah, I, I, definitely I agree, it's just it's, it's hard but it's. It is really part of the process, and writing a book is is, I feel, like such a brave thing, because it is like so vulnerable and um, yeah, it takes a lot, uh, a lot of of you out of it like it's wild, how uh deeply healing writing a novel is yeah, yeah, I think I was.
Speaker 2:I don't think I was quite prepared for that either. I'm gonna write a book. People are gonna read it. I'm so excited. And then it came out and people were actually reading and I was like, oh no, please, don't, please, don read it. That's so much of me in there. I feel so vulnerable.
Speaker 1:Right, it's kind of embarrassing. Yeah, it is.
Speaker 2:It really is. It's kind of embarrassing. It's like somebody opening the door while you're changing. You're like wait, wait, wait a minute.
Speaker 1:And the wild thing too, I find, is that like so much of that stuff is like too, I find, is that like so much of that stuff is like only you would know it. So it's not like they would know it either, like certain things or people maybe close to you would know it, but yeah, it's for the most part it's all like oh, that's just your character or whatever, um, but yeah, it is still like so, oh, scary, scary, but but also I feel like kind of cool too to know that people are reading it. It's that sort of like dance between oh, oh my gosh, I'm going to cry and oh my gosh, I'm so excited.
Speaker 2:Right, yeah, yeah, I think I just I feel like I walk around all the time with mixed feelings about everything that happens to me with publishing, because it's like it's a good thing and not a good thing at the same time. And my husband's like why are you crying? If I'm crying because I'm happy or because I'm feeling exposed, I don't know.
Speaker 1:It's pretty much writing in a nutshell, it's such a fun time. I feel like we're selling it. I love it. No, it is truly such a magical thing to be able to put these characters that are in your head onto paper and have them actually like, be people. That's such a trip actually like be people.
Speaker 2:Uh, that's such a trip. Oh yeah, it's just definitely. It's a special thing, I think, and I don't know that's kind of why, I don't know. It feels to me it's kind of like having a baby. It's like I can explain it to you all day long, but until you created one for yourself, you just, you know, it's hard to express all the weird feelings that you feel about it 100.
Speaker 1:That's such a great way of looking at it. It's true, you don't know until you experience it, and then it's like there's no point in me trying to tell you.
Speaker 2:You're going to be like yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:I get it. My kids are never going to have McDonald's you know all of the things. Always we're great, yeah, but until you have it and the book is out, it's a whole different ballgame for sure. Well, I would love for you to share how people can get in touch with you and find your books and all, yeah, all of the good things, because obviously they're going to need it.
Speaker 2:I am. I am on most of the major social media things, except for Twitter. I have kind of closed that one down because it's kind of gone down the drain but I'm on threads. I am on TikTok for as long as that lasts. I have an Instagram. I'm always some version of Ink and Ashes. The punctuation is slightly different on them because they all allow slightly different punctuation, but you can find me there.
Speaker 2:I have a website which is ashleyhothornnet and I think that will also connect you to all my various social media stuff and my books are available paperback and ebook, not stuff. And my books are available paperback and ebook Not in KU, because that is one of the things my publisher doesn't do. So I think that's. The only thing that makes me sad is my publisher doesn't do KU, so you can't get it there, but you can get it on Amazon and stuff. So I think it'sI know you can get it on like the Barnes Noble website and stuff. If you don't do Amazon, it is available at other places, um, and you can find that, I think again also on my website and stuff.
Speaker 1:So lots of places, amazing everywhere right, yeah, I feel like that's the nature of it, like we gotta be in all of the things everywhere um, yeah, I always love hearing about other authors and their processes and books and stories, and I have too many books that I need to read, so it is it a problem, but also not a problem, right? Thanks so much for listening to today's episode. I would love if you would leave a review and also, if you loved the author that we chatted with, go find them on social media and hype them up, comment on their stuff, share their work, even if you can't buy the book. These kind of things are great ways of supporting indie authors and getting their book in front of new readers. And if you are a writer or author in need of a developmental editor, please reach out. I would love to chat. Everything is linked in the show notes and it would be an absolute honor to be able to get eyes on your novel. So thanks again and listen to the next episode.
