Book Shop Chats:
Welcome to Book Shop Chats, your go to podcast for indie authors and learning insight into what it takes to write a book (HINT: You can do it too!!)
Join authors as they share their personal journeys, successes, and challenges, providing you with unique insights into the writing process. The discussions explore into various aspects of storytelling, from character development to plot structuring, ensuring you have a well-rounded understanding of the craft.
Whether you're just starting out or have published multiple works, this podcast is your companion in the pursuit of storytelling excellence. Tune in, gather inspiration, and let your passion for writing flourish alongside a community that celebrates the art of the written word.
Book Shop Chats:
From Twilight Fans to Novelists: Amanda and Lisa Marie's Journey of Co-Writing, Creative Challenges, and Book Promotion
Collaboration can be a powerful catalyst for creativity, as Amanda and Lisa Marie share in this episode about their journey of writing a book together. They delve into the dynamics of co-authoring, navigating marketing challenges, and the importance of supporting each other in both writing and in-person events.
• Exploring the process of co-writing and its benefits
• Discussing their unique characters and different writing perspectives
• How their Twilight fandom turned into a writing partnership
• Challenges and joys of marketing as indie authors
• Balancing writing with family life and personal commitments
• Embracing vulnerability in in-person events as authors
• The importance of patience and persistence in the writing journey
If you love what Amanda and Lisa Marie shared, go support them on social media and check out their work!
Blurb:
Pressured by her looming deadline and an unfinished romance manuscript, author Molly Covington applies her immersive research skills and goes all in. She hires a male companion for inspiration during three days of research in Las Vegas.
Enter sexy, confident Jared Washington—an extreme sports enthusiast and relationship skeptic who moonlights as a Plus One male companion. Molly’s contract puts him within arm’s reach of buying his own business and making his dreams come true.
The chemistry between her and Jared is surprisingly easy. Before their Vegas rendezvous comes to an end, one of them will need to lay all their cards on the table to discover if they’ll be lucky in love.
Author bio:
Amanda and Lisa-Marie are an award-winning, co-writing team of best friends who share imaginary worlds, including a short story, Shivers, published in Moments Between. Lisa Marie Potter (BIPOC) is a mom of four who grew up in Nottingham, England, and now resides in Alaska with her husband and golden retriever. Amanda Nelson grew up in Maryland and moved to Arizona, where she attended college and currently lives with her husband and four kids. Both women are hopeless romantics, but Lisa-Marie enjoys suspense novels, while Amanda's second go-to genre is romancy. The duo also review books on their socials, hike the Olympic National Park, and fight over the same fictional crushes.
Links:
Website: NELSON POTTER
Amazon: https://a.co/d/cUEN9tf or Barnes & Noble Men in Books Aren't Better by Amanda Nelson | eBook | Barnes & Noble®
About Victoria:
Hey there, I’m Victoria! As a writer and developmental editor, I specialize in helping busy writers bring their publishing dreams to life without the overwhelm. Editing doesn’t have to feel like pulling teeth—it's the magic that transforms your story from “meh” to masterpiece!
Here’s how I can help:
📖 FREE Manuscript Prep Workbook: Take the stress out of editing with simple steps to organize your revisions.
Grab it HERE
📝 Developmental Editing: Get expert feedback that elevates your manuscript, strengthens your story, and polishes your characters.
✍️ 1:1 monthly support Writer's Haven: Revitalize your creativity, map out your novel, and unleash your authentic voice.
Your story deserves to shine, and I’m here to make it happen. Let’s turn your writing dreams into a reality!
📱 IG: @editsbyvictoria
🌐 Website: https://www.victoriajaneeditorial.com/links
Oh hey, it's Victoria from Victoria Jane Editorial and your host of Bookshop Chats. This podcast is all about authors, writing and the magic that goes into storytelling. We cover all of the things that go into writing a book, from the creative process, from taking your idea to a first draft, creating and cultivating community within the author space, marketing all of the fun things. If you are a reader, a wannabe writer or an author, you will find tips and tricks that suit whatever level you are at. So I hope that you enjoy and you are unfortunately, or fortunately going to find many more books to add to your TBR, so I will invite you to sit back and listen to the episode. Welcome back to Bookshop Chats. In today's episode it is a little different. I have two authors that I am chatting with today, so welcome Amanda and Lisa Marie to the podcast.
Speaker 2:Thank you for having us.
Speaker 1:I'm so excited to dive in. I, like I said, I have never chatted with authors that like co-write a book together, so I feel like this is going to be a really fun episode of just how that process all works. But before we dive into this, I would love to hear all about your book. You showed me the cover and I already. I already want it, so I would love for, yeah, whoever feels called to dive in and share a bit about the novel.
Speaker 2:All right, I'm going to do the pitch because we had back in December we did the Mesa Book Festival in Mesa, arizona, and so this is the pitch. Molly is a thriller writer but she wants to try her hand at romance. Unfortunately, she gets her heart broken and it leaves her with writer's block. So, on a whim, she hires a male companion to get her creative juices flowing, and while she knows that the chemistry between them is fact, she can't tell if the emotion behind them is fiction. So it's written in dual, dual point of view. I do jared and lisa marie does mo Molly oh, I love that.
Speaker 1:That is so fascinating. I never I mean it seems so logical to to separate the book in that kind of way, but it really does, I imagine, give two very different character voices when two different people are writing the characters yeah, it really does.
Speaker 3:And and the fact is is that we're we're both pantsers, so we don't have a big outline or anything like that. So I'll write my chapter and send it to Amanda and she doesn't know what I've written until she gets it, and then I've got to wait and see what she's written. So it feels like an adventure for us in the process. I love that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I would love to hear more about this whole like process of writing and how you you guys decided to actually come together and write this novel. Okay, amanda, filled this.
Speaker 2:So it started. We are huge Twilight fans of the books, not the movies. And we were at the very, very beginning, like before the movies ever came out. And so when Eclipse came out and we were at the very, very beginning, like before the movies ever came out and so when Eclipse came out, like we went to the Eclipse prom at ASU and everything like we crushed, yeah, we gate crushed, we don't take it, we just went Um. But so we had this whole theories of everything.
Speaker 2:And so when the fourth book came out, we had this whole basically script written in our head and it wasn't that it didn't go that way. And so we decided well, we could probably write something of our own and make it go any way we want, because it would be our own story. And so we decided so Lisa Marie, actually for my birthday, gave me a journal and she goes okay, you write a couple pages and pass it to me, and then I'll read it, and then I'll write a couple pages and pass it back and we'll go back and forth. And that's how the process started. I kind of developed from there. That's so much fun it kind of.
Speaker 1:Kind of gives me the like. Back when I was a teen I'd write like fan fiction with my friend and we'd have this epic like back and forth. It was just like quite a quite a production and yeah, it was so much fun. But it got that like creative juices flowing in it, kind of like a way that didn't feel so lonely I would imagine.
Speaker 3:Yeah, well, because the thing is is that when we, when we started the actual writing journey and doing that with the journal, we, we didn't realize that we would actually end up with something that was fully developed and that we loved. And as we were going through the process, we started to realize, you know, I enjoy this and I love the worlds that we're creating and the characters, and so we, you know, we finished that particular manuscript and that's our book, baby, but that's on the shelf at the moment. But we, we're like you know what, maybe we can take this seriously, maybe we, we can do this, and so we just kind of carried on from there and and picked up with other characters and and uh, we actually, we actually had to take some classes too, because we had no idea what this journey would entail, no idea what we were doing.
Speaker 2:So we went to writers conferences, we took some classes, realized we were so unprepared for this what we thought was good wasn't, but you know, but it was.
Speaker 3:It was the starting block. As I read it back now, I'm like horrified that I thought it was good. But the thing is is that, as we did all these classes and everything, we started to learn from other writers and you know, and start to hone our skills a little bit so that we could actually, you know, write something that somebody else might want to read, and not just us, you know.
Speaker 1:I love that and I think that that's such a great way to dive into writing, where it's just this sort of fun thing.
Speaker 1:And then that cause I know that a lot of the people that I've connected with or like people that are like, oh, I wish I could write a book there.
Speaker 1:They get stuck on that it needs to be perfect, or I don't know enough, or whatever, and the reality is it's the story that matters. So getting that out without all of the noise of like you have to do it this way and this is how you should structure it, and all of that, I feel like there's something really magical about like that process. And then you get to go and, like you said, do the classes learn more? And I echoed the same thing. I'm like, oh boy, like my first version of my book was, oh, it was a hot mess, but it was that foundation, right, like you said, to create what you've created now, and even if maybe it's not the exact book or it's something else, you become a better writer by writing and that's yeah, that's such a huge thing and it's this, it's such a fun process and it's so amazing to be able to use my made-up arguments for something useful, right yeah, all those afterthoughts after you've had a conversation with someone else.
Speaker 3:I can put that in my book, but I love it one of the best pieces of of advice that I've been given well, we've been given um is to just write your your first draft straight through. Don't keep going back and editing because you don't, and I think that's what discourages a lot of writers. Um, I know that. It did myself at one point because I felt like, well, we're not getting past chapter three because you know we keep revisiting chapter one and making edits the first draft. Just go through it. It's gonna be a hot mess, like you said, but as you go back, you can edit then and you know the end of the story. So you know if you want to thread some more through out the beginning as well. So you know, don't take the first draft too seriously. It's literally just the bones.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's so true hard advice to take, though, because once you've edited a book and stuff like that, to start a new manuscript and try and forget everything that you actually know to just get it on paper, it's hard to peel back Like nope, I know that sentence is horribly structured, it's okay. It's okay, just keep going, just keep going.
Speaker 1:It's so, true though it is, it's a hard one because you just want it to land with people and it's so easy, um, to get like 10 steps ahead of yourself, at least in my brain. I'm like, oh, it needs to be, like it needs to be ready to go in like a week, or like a completely unrealistic expectation. So it's it's, it's a practice of reining it in and like breaking up with perfection, because there's no such thing as perfect. Even books that you're like, oh my gosh, I love them, like it's not, it's still not perfect, and I'm certain the author is like I totally could have fixed something here.
Speaker 2:So always, always. I think another piece of advice is get used to rereading your book a thousand times.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, You're going to read it till you. Hate it.
Speaker 1:That is so true. It really comes down to like really making sure that that story is like it's something that you love to like. That's what's driving you. But yeah, you definitely get to the point where you're like I'm just I, I can I set this on fire because I can't like these characters are annoying, I don't want to look at them anymore. But then if you put it away for a little while and you come back to it, I find you're like oh wait, this wasn't so bad. Yeah, yeah, absolutely absolutely amazing.
Speaker 1:So now that your book is out in the world, I would love to hear how that journey has been in terms of. I know for many indie authors, uh, marketing is kind of the bane of their existence. Oh, yeah but you have a buddy, so I don't know if that changes the dynamic. Or if there's two people to like, there's two of you, so you both get to cry about how much you're like.
Speaker 3:Oh my gosh yeah, you hit the nail on the head. I mean it's perfect, because having both of us cause I'm the one that will you know, well at first.
Speaker 3:I've gotten better over the over the time, uh, but at first I used to take every criticism to heart like, oh, I need to stop. I'm no good at this, and you know, get myself all flustered and upset and everything. And Amanda would be, you know. Come on, we got this. You know, we know we can do this and everything, and, and so we're never down at the same time, which is is perfect, and and if one's a little discouraged, the other one will push the other one along. No, we're writing today. Get online. You know we were, we're best friends as well, so that makes it super easy because she can say to me what other people can't get away with. But yeah, it has. And as we've gone through the process of marketing, we've been able to, you know, kind of split some things up and take some things each, and even then it's still overwhelming. So I can understand why an individual that's an indie author would get, you know, kind of overwhelmed.
Speaker 2:I honestly don't know how people do it by themselves. Like I couldn't do it without Lisa Marie, because even just social media like she has TikTok and Instagram and Facebook and I have threads and blue sky and X and you know and just trying to like post everything and keep up with everything, and I'm like I don't know, I don't know how people do it and I I understand that not everybody does every social media, you know kind of thing, but just it's so overwhelming and then you have to worry about okay, well, now I have to make sure to get reviews and do we have a street team for the next book and get just so much to do? Like there's a checkbook, I have a notebook here with everything that we've done to try and keep up with marketing Cause it's like, wait, I have something. It says we have something on Wednesday.
Speaker 2:What's Wednesday? What's that? You know? And it's like, oh, that's right, they're going to feature us on their blog. Okay, yeah, okay. So we have to make sure to spread that around as the blog goes up and you know. But it's just I don't know how people do it alone. I am so grateful to have Lisa Marie on this journey. I bless anyone who could do it.
Speaker 3:Well, and in addition to that, we're both in different states and we couldn't be further apart Amanda's in Arizona and I'm in Alaska, and so geez wow.
Speaker 3:Yeah, any further. And so you know we obviously teams has been our best friend and and her husband has set us up so that, you know, we don't have any more interruptions, because when we set ourselves up at first we kept getting cut off and different things anyway. So Amanda's husband has been our tech support, but we've spent a lot of time on Teams. I mean, we talk so much every day, and you know, but we also I'll travel down to Arizona so that we can do some things together, because there's some things that you just can't do apart, you know, especially when it comes to marketing and doing, you know, signings and things like that that's so true yeah, she was in Arizona for December to do the Mesa Book Festival and then in June I'm going up to Alaska because we're going to have a book signing at a Barnes and Noble in Anchorage.
Speaker 2:So we're having to take turns back and forth so fun.
Speaker 1:That's amazing. I I'd love to hear a little bit more about like in like, your experience with like in-person events, because, again, I mean, not all authors are introverted but a lot of them that I've connected with really do struggle with that sort of like, having to put their face forward and kind of push out of their comfort zone a little bit. So I'd love to hear, yeah, how you found that part of the promotional space.
Speaker 2:Well, lisa Marie is the one who found the Mesa Book Festival. Like, she went online and looking for places and she knew she was going to be down here in December because she used to live down here and her kids are still here in Arizona. So she knew she was coming for a visit anyway. So she was scouring what can we do while we're here and unfortunately most places were pretty much closed up for December because it's a busy month anyway. But the Mesa Book Festival happened to be open and so we were on it and we put up a whole stand and it was. It was really fun, like luckily it's Arizona and so the weather was like 65 and it was beautiful and sunny, so it was perfect. But people came by and you have to you do have to stretch out of your comfort zone and you know, we had, um, a cut out of a guy who we picture is our main character, jared Jared in the book, and so we had him there and he he actually got a lot of attention.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love that.
Speaker 2:He's a brilliant idea, yeah so brilliant, right, and so he, he got a lot of attention and so he kind of brought people over and then we'd launch into the spiel and know that kind of thing. And you just, we had bookmarks and some some swag, so some stickers and stuff like that to give people. And so you do, you just have to kind of push through and think, at least we knew that we were at a book festival, so people were there for books. You know, you don't feel like the mall kiosk where people aren't necessarily there for whatever you're selling.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so this is not bad and Amanda's more confident and outgoing than I am, and so I did feel quite anxious leading up to the event. Um, but you know, we, we, if you've got your pitch down, you're a lot more confident when people approach you, because you just come out with that you're not gonna, you're not gonna mess up, you've got it. And so that was really, you know, a useful thing to do is, you know, so on, because people always come out and the first thing they say is what's your book about? And you know that's a great starting point. And, um, you know, and it gets easier as you, with each person that approaches you. And you know, I mean there was one point where we were so kind of surrounded that you think, oh, I can't believe that we're this popular, you know. And that gave me another boost where I'm like, okay, okay, you know. And so, you know, I mean it is a lot of fun, it is nerve wracking.
Speaker 3:One person had suggested that we on TikTok do a live before we started, you know, while we were setting up, and I'm horrible on camera, horrible, and I mean when we do.
Speaker 3:If you ever look at our TikToks, amanda looks all confident and breezy and comfortable with the camera and I'm like I turned to cardboard and you know, and all of a sudden I don't know what my name is and yeah, yeah, and just know that if you see me speaking on a video on on TikTok, that there's probably been about 50 tries prior to that, the one that I felt okay, that's decent enough to post and it's still not as good as Amanda's, but hey, but um, so I was nervous about doing the live um, but we set it up on a tripod, put it on the table and we were setting up and we were just talking and for a while I felt like I was kind of rambling a little bit and telling jokes and things like that.
Speaker 3:But it started to loosen me up, ready for when people actually came to the, you know, to our table, and in addition to that, it got notice out to those that hadn't seen other posts and people were writing messages and saying I'm on my way, and so that was really nice to to see that people had seen it and they enjoyed it, even though I felt like it was a big mess, you know. So it's just like it's fake it till you make it really, you know, so it's just like it's fake it till you make it really Truly truly.
Speaker 1:And I feel like that's such a good point is that it's. It's not necessarily even the quality of the thing, especially when it comes to, like, putting yourself out there. It's like doing it. That's what's going to stretch your comfort zone is showing up and being like, okay, I did it. I didn't die, great I, but it is it's. It's so hard to do that stuff, especially when you're sharing about, like your book and the heart and soul that goes into that. It's, it's, it's.
Speaker 1:It's a vulnerable experience and I think many people, when you first start writing, you don't realize like it's essentially therapy, so it makes sense that it would be a very scary process when you are pitching it to people to be like, hey, please read this. I cried a lot I wrote it.
Speaker 2:I don't think people realize how much of a writer's heart and soul goes into that book, and so it is putting your heart out on display and you're like, please don't chop it to bits, you know, please be gentle with my heart, you know, and it's, it's hard, but it's worth it.
Speaker 3:It's worth it, and it's even the process before that leading up, it's sending it out to an agent, sending it out to, you know, publishers, and things like that. Those are all nerve-wracking too, because you are going to get hit with a ton of rejections and but you've got to kind of keep tramping through it. Um, even if it hurts, you know, and uh, it's, it is worth it in the end. But the whole process is, um, it it's, it's a long process and it can, um, it can be soul destroying sometimes, and so that's why, you know, we're grateful that we got each other and why we, and you know, not envy but, um, admire, you know, individual writers so much, because it's a lot to take on on yourself it's.
Speaker 1:It's definitely a whole like. It's a whole world that you don't really realize. You're like I wrote the book and now I have to do all of this too. Oh my gosh, this is so scary, uh. But it it, like you said, it's just like one step at a time, simple, like just do what you can, and I think that it's it's really reminding yourself that you're you're playing the long game at least, for I feel like most authors want to be here for a while, right, like they want to put out multiple works. So it's your first book, right, that's it's not going to be as good as your 10th book, but that's okay, because it's like putting you, you proved to yourself that you could do it and you could put it out, and people liked it and all of that stuff. So I think that's such a huge reminder. As well as that it's it's yeah, you don't know what you don't know, and it, the more you do it, the better you become. Yes.
Speaker 2:We were actually just reminding ourselves the other day. It's a marathon on a sprint. It's a marathon on a sprint. Yes.
Speaker 1:It's hard, cause I feel like there is a lot of pressure now, especially with like. Obviously social media is great and that we can get our word out. Pressure now, especially with like obviously social media is great and that we can get our word out, but there is this sort of almost like, if you're not putting out multiple books a year, like there's something kind of wrong with you, and I really everybody's creativity is is so different, everybody's season is so different. I've got three kids. I run a business Like I just don't have that time, um, so I imagine, like, for you guys, how do you, um, I guess, balance it in the sense that you have two of you?
Speaker 3:so how do you structure, like writing, writing a novel, yes well, I'm two hours behind Amanda's time zone and so we, you know, we just kind of set ourselves a time frame of when we're going to work and we give ourself a good amount of hours and we'll do that five days a week.
Speaker 3:And uh, you know, and it's on the dot and we, and we get on with it after we've had a little bit of a chit chat because we're vested, so we sometimes set a time to keep ourselves in check. That's like okay, you've got 15 minutes, you've got 15 minutes, now we gotta work. You know, but it is a case of I think the hardest part is getting your family to understand that this is work for you, because everyone my family treated it very much like it was just some silly hobby, it was not going to turn into anything, so they could call me or turn up every time they wanted to. And it's like no, you, I wouldn't turn up to your work, this is my work. And so you know you have to be really firm with family members and you have to be strong with yourself that you can either switch your phone off or you can look and think I'll get that later, you know.
Speaker 2:So they're tough things to overcome, because when we first started, um, I still had kids at home. Well, I still have. I still have kids at home, but I have a lot more kids at home. I have four and Lisa Marie has three, and it's it was a matter of doing it, and we still do it while my kids are at school, kind of thing. Like okay, between this time and this time kids are at school, I have this time, but then I have adult children too, and she has adult children and just so you know, you think that they won't need you as much, but that's a lie it absolutely is.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think my kids now call me up more than they ever bothered me when I was on the phone when they lived here.
Speaker 2:I would agree with that, like having been writing with her for like eight years now, like it's been a long time. You know, I'm like yes, they definitely call more now than they used to.
Speaker 1:That's hilarious and I fully do believe that, like we're in the the like teen years now and I'm like I swear it's busier than when you were toddlers Like how is this possible? I mean, at least they can get their own snacks now, but it's still. It's a lot like it's just it's it's busy, and I think it's it's recognizing that and remembering, like, what you can do in your schedule and also that you make a great point of bringing it, of treating it like it's it's a job, but like it's that you're putting the effort into it and I think, for it can be easy to get stuck on. It's not making money right now, so like it's not, like should I, can I do it? Or feeling guilty or whatever about like taking the time for that, but it's, if you really do want to make it work, you do kind of you have to treat it like it's it's a job yeah, especially because we have a small press and so.
Speaker 2:So we didn't get an advance. But you know it'll still take a while to make back what we put into marketing. You know so, even if there is a check, it's going back towards what we've already spent into marketing. You know so, making money and we're splitting it yeah, yeah, I mean, you're an agent.
Speaker 3:We split the rest between the two of us.
Speaker 2:It's like, yeah, we're not making bank here, but we get five dollars. Yeah, we'll be very excited.
Speaker 1:That's a win and I think that that's great, like I feel like just adjusting your expectations. Yes, it makes such a difference, right, like even, yeah, five bucks, whatever you can buy coffee with that. But like getting five dollars to pay, like, for something that I created that people like, right, like that's such an amazing thing. And I think, yeah, I can. You can easily get stuck on the oh well, it's, you know, not making like as much as so-and-so did, but whatever, but your journey is your journey, so you really just like owning that. And, yeah, getting paid to create art is epic, I think it is.
Speaker 3:And you just have to be patient with yourself, because it's easy in the beginning, when you you've started writing and you think, oh, I completed this. Look at me, I'm so clever and you know, and you can feel like we've got a number one bestseller. No, you don't, it's the draft, you know. I mean there was plenty of times Amanda had to pull my reins and like, no, we're not ready. No, this, you know, this is horrible. We should not put this out there, you know.
Speaker 3:And so it's a case of having to be patient with yourself and, um, you know, sometimes you can't change your family, thinking it's a hobby or anything like that. But as long as you take it serious and you've, you know, sometimes you can't change your family, thinking it's a hobby or anything like that, but as long as you take it serious and you've, you know, and you realize it is an extremely long process but it's well worth it in the end. I mean, like I can't tell you how I felt when, you know, the box of books came and we got to open them up. I mean I was like my stomach was doing flips. Open them up. I mean I was like my stomach was doing flips.
Speaker 3:I was so excited because I look at this book and it doesn't just represent a story that we've written, but it represents a lot of hard work, a lot of rejection, a lot of heartache and you know, and to see it, you know, formatted and out there now I feel so proud of us that we were able to accomplish that. You know, especially when we had kids at home and different things like that, it's, it's hard, and so you do have to adjust your time schedule, obviously, to be realistic, so that you, you know, you can't be, you know, typing away. No one's got dinner. Well, in saying that, we have had a few moments where it's been cereal, but you know what?
Speaker 1:Whatever, everybody wins with a cereal dinner. I feel like personally.
Speaker 2:They actually like it better. So yes, they do.
Speaker 1:So true. Well, that's amazing, and I would love for you to share where people can find you guys and your book, because obviously we need it now. So, yes, um.
Speaker 2:So we have a website um wwwnelsonpottercom that's our last names, n-e-l-s-o-n-p-o-t-t-e-rcom. It has links to our books, um, if you can find all the links on there. Or you can go to amazon, you can go to barnes and noble. It's on apple books, google books, um nook, all kinds of different places online um, so you can get it all there. And we actually have the second book in the series is with the proofreading department. We should be getting a release date any day now, so it should be out probably summer of this year. It is not quite a sequel, but it's in the same universe, so a side character from our first book is the main character of the second. So we will have that out this summer and you get we'll having a cover reveal in a little, in about a week, so that'll be out there soon, um, and then we are drafting the third book in that series as well, and so hopefully that'll be out a year from this summer and you can find us on all the socials too.
Speaker 2:Um, all those links are also on our website. But it's usually what is it? It's usually a middleman, ellen potter or nelson potter duo yeah, amazing, awesome.
Speaker 1:Well, everything's going to be linked in the show notes so it'll be super easy for people to click through and find all of your links and the books and everything will be updated. So I'm very, very excited to yeah, for people to get this book in their hands, and it was lovely chatting with both of you and I feel like I've learned so much, so, thank you.
Speaker 2:Thank you, thanks for having us. This was great.
Speaker 1:Thanks so much for listening to today's episode. I would love if you would leave a review and also, if you love the author that we chatted with, go find them on social media and hype them up, comment on their stuff, share their work. Even if you can't buy the book, these kind of things are great ways of supporting indie authors and getting their book in front of new readers. And if you are a writer or author in need of a developmental editor, please reach out. I would love to chat. Everything is linked in the show notes and it would be an absolute honor to be able to get eyes on your novel. So thanks again and listen to the next episode.
