Book Shop Chats:
Welcome to Book Shop Chats, your go to podcast for indie authors and learning insight into what it takes to write a book (HINT: You can do it too!!)
Join authors as they share their personal journeys, successes, and challenges, providing you with unique insights into the writing process. The discussions explore into various aspects of storytelling, from character development to plot structuring, ensuring you have a well-rounded understanding of the craft.
Whether you're just starting out or have published multiple works, this podcast is your companion in the pursuit of storytelling excellence. Tune in, gather inspiration, and let your passion for writing flourish alongside a community that celebrates the art of the written word.
Book Shop Chats:
Episode FORTY: Unlocking Creativity: Childhood Influences and Balancing Life with Author Chloe Spencer
This episode explores the intersection of storytelling, mental health, and genre-blending in literature with author Chloe Spencer. We chat about Chloe's unique approach to writing, the importance of representation in young adult fiction, and the emotional complexities faced by authors in their creative journeys.
• Chloe discusses her recent release "Haunting Melody"
• Importance of representing mental health in young adult literature
• How horror can explore themes of trauma and grief
• The significance of connecting with readers at events
• Insights on post-release author anxiety
• The value of building a sustainable lifestyle for writers
About the author:
Minnesota native Chloe Spencer (she/her) is an award winning writer, indie gamedev, and filmmaker. She is the author of multiple sapphic horror novellas, novels, and short stories. In her spare time she enjoys playing video games, trying her best at Pilates, and cuddling with her cats. She holds a BA in Journalism from the University of Oregon and an MFA in Film and Television from SCAD Atlanta.
From the author of Monstersona comes a haunting queer young adult novel, with themes of mental health and PTSD, and a thrilling mystery at its core.
Failure is a sinister song. One that Melody Myere is all too familiar with.
The only child of an acclaimed ghost hunter couple, Melody’s First Sacred Hunt should have been a walk in the park. All she needed to do was catch a ghost, like she’s done all her life. But when an unexpected wraith showed up causing havoc, Melody was left scarred and embarrassed.
Suffering from depression and PTSD post-hunt, Melody relocates to the sleepy island town of Murkmore, where her parents have been tasked with capturing the ghost responsible for a series of grisly deaths. Determined to prove herself, and despite her parents' protests, Melody sets out to capture the specter on her own.
When a haunting song lures Melody to an abandoned theater, she encounters a recently deceased musical prodigy by the name of Cyrus. All signs point to Cyrus being the killer, but Melody isn’t so sure, suspecting something more discordant is afoot.
Connect with Chloe:
Main website: https://www.chloespenceronline.com/
Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/heyitschloespencer.bsky.social
TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@heyitschloespencer
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/heyitschloespencer/?hl=en
About Victoria:
Hey there, I’m Victoria! As a writer and developmental editor, I specialize in helping busy writers bring their publishing dreams to life without the overwhelm. Editing doesn’t have to feel like pulling teeth—it's the magic that transforms your story from “meh” to masterpiece!
Here’s how I can help:
📖 FREE Manuscript Prep Workbook: Take the stress out of editing with simple steps to organize your revisions.
Grab it HERE
📝 Developmental Editing: Get expert feedback that elevates your manuscript, strengthens your story, and polishes your characters.
✍️ 1:1 monthly support Writer's Haven: Revitalize your creativity, map out your novel, and unleash your authentic voice.
Your story deserves to shine, and I’m here to make it happen. Let’s turn your writing dreams into a reality!
📱 IG: @editsbyvictoria
🌐 Website: https://victoriajaneeditorial.myflodesk.com/links
Welcome to Bookshop Chats. I am your host, victoria Hopkins. Bookshop Chats is the perfect podcast for authors, readers and writers alike. In these episodes, we chat with a variety of authors from all kinds of genres and help demystify and show you that writing a book is well, not necessarily easy doable. So grab a coffee and get ready to add a whole bunch more books to your TBR and let's dive in. Oh hey, it's Victoria, your host of Bookshop Chats.
Speaker 1:Before we dive into today's episode, I'm going to share a little bit about what's going on in my world. So currently, my books are open for developmental editing. If that is your jam, if you need a book edited, come reach out to me. Free samples for the first 1,000, 1,500 words, just to make sure that we jive with each other, because that is a very, very important thing. When you are looking for a developmental editor, you want to make sure that you guys jive with each other, because that is a very, very important thing. When you are looking for a developmental editor, you want to make sure that you guys jive, that the feedback is given is going to be what it is that you are indeed looking for, and if you are a busy writer like me, we need all the help we can get when it comes to planning. And if you are maybe a little bit more of a pantster, let me show you the power of having some kind of outline. So this is kind of the premise of the five minute planner that I put together for busy writers. So in there you will find a huge character sketch to really like dive into your characters and also a really simple planner outline that you can map out what you need to write each day. So this is a really great way to help kind of get clear of what direction you need to go, whether it's a scene or whether it's a chapter, and you can even utilize this throughout your whole book. It's really simple to use.
Speaker 1:I put it together with the intention of it being like a five to 10 minute kind of thing that you do maybe before you write, just so that you are maximizing the time that you have to write. Especially if you are low on time like me, we need all the help we can get. And finally, I also put together the Writer's Haven is a bite-sized audio training for the busy writer. So I put these little bite-sized audio clips together with the intention of you being able to listen to them on demand, as you need to, and they're really great for helping with things like, maybe, writer's block or you're feeling a little bit stuck on how to manage your busy life and fit writing into it.
Speaker 1:I've also added some meditations to help really support your inner artist and really just tap back into your creative spirit, and it is all available for you. I'll link it in the show notes if that is something that is your jam. Like I said, it is a super low cost $9 to hop in and the intention is I'll periodically add in a couple audios here and there throughout the year, and it's kind of an ever evolving thing. So once you grab it, that's it, it's yours and you get access to any bonus things that I add in. Okay, friends? Well, I think it is about time that we dive back into today's episode. So grab a cozy beverage and let's add some more books to your TBR. Welcome back to Bookshop.
Speaker 2:Chats. In today's episode, I am chatting with Chloe Spencer. Welcome to the podcast. Hi, thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited. It feels like this is going to be a really fun one. It's a very gloomy, like windy day today, so I'm excited to have some like fun energy.
Speaker 3:That's great. Yeah, it's here too.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, it's like November hits and it's just like dark. That's it, there's, there's, there's like morning and then dark, yes, um, so we're going to like just hit the ground running and, um, we were chatting a little bit before I hit record about your books. You have a lot of them, um, so I would love for you to chat about whichever book is calling calling you at this moment.
Speaker 3:Um, that you would love to kind of like dive into first yeah, sure, I would love to talk about my most recent release, which is haunting melody. It released on october 1st with tiny ghost press and it is a why? A paranormal mystery romance that centers on a disgraced teenage ghost hunter that has to team up with a ghost in order to solve a murder mystery. So I love to describe it as like a mix of Gravity Falls and Ghostbusters. I love it.
Speaker 2:So cool, so different from what I would typically read, but I find that so fascinating, all of these amazing stories that are created.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, this one I was kind of drawing on a lot of different fun ghost stories and other things. When I had finished writing Monster Sona, which was my previous YA release. I wanted something that was a little bit tonally softer or more playful. Haunting Melody still tackles some very serious subjects. Um, it centers on a protagonist who has ptsd. I have ptsd, um, so I wanted to write something that was uh kind of like more informative about what that's like and sort of almost be a guide for people, not not like a guidebook per se, but like something that people who other people, specifically teens with that diagnosis could relate to, because I think that there's still a lot of misconceptions. But tonally it's very like playful. Compared to monster sona, which was a story that was more about like bodily autonomy, it's about it was more about like the onset of ptsd, so there was less control, and this book, haunting melody, is more about what it's like PTSD, so there was less control, and this book, haunting melody, is more about what it's like to live with it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, amazing. I love that. I am like it's. I'm so in awe of all of these amazing like representations that are coming now with books and all of these characters that are just so relatable that I wish existed when I was like a teenager.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, like it's so important and honestly, I love how YA has so much representation for depression and anxiety. But if you, if you look at it, like there's not a lot of stuff that explicitly names other types of disorders or like mental illnesses that people have or, you know, even even things like autistic rep, like I think we're still trying to like build that kind of representation and and and have those stories be at the forefront of everyone's minds. And yeah, it's exciting, it's exciting to you know work on like building these stories and and and seeing the space and I just kind of want to see it grow. So I'm excited for that growth.
Speaker 2:That's. That's amazing. I love that Awesome. Well, you also said obviously before we were recording, that you are a horror author as well, so that like it just feels like quite a jump from, like the young adults to horror. But I would love to hear more about that, because I'm a baby and I don't think I could ever write horror.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think that I like to write a lot of horror. So, just in general, I'm very interested in people who are not perfect. I'm very interested by deeply flawed protagonists, because I feel like they're the ones that are going to make the most unhinged decisions and I feel like horror is a genre that's like perfect for that, so a lot of so. I think one of my horror books, mewing, which is a genre that's like perfect for that, so a lot of so. I think one of my horror books, mewing, which is a novella that released with shortwave books back in February, that one centers on a Instagram influencer who joins this like influencer co-op that's led by a supermodel and as she falls in love with the supermodel, she also like descends into madness and like there's some weird demon stuff that's involved there. So I think horror is also like a great vehicle to explore. I mean grief. In the context of mewing, it's used to explore a lot of stuff about bodily autonomy. When it comes to and I also just like looking.
Speaker 3:Horror is such an interesting genre, I think, for women.
Speaker 3:You know, you have the concept of the final girl, so you have the concept of, uh, this, this, this character or this person who is able to, um either overcome or control the situation.
Speaker 3:She's the only person that can like face off against this big bad um, but at the same time, like like horror, I think, also deals with over-sexualization of women in some ways. So, like, I think it's interesting to be a female horror writer in the genre and just kind of see how you can sort of play with different dynamics for that sort of thing. So I like to explore things long story short. I like to explore things long story short. I like to explore things that kind of focus on like experiences as women, um, women, uh, experiences with power, um stories about how things relate to trauma, um, and also, yeah, a lot of stuff relating to bodily autonomy and body image issues too yeah, huge thing, super important, that I feel like it's such a common experience for all, like all women, like we've all had that in our lives at some point yeah, yeah, like um, and I think that horror is a great vehicle for body image issues.
Speaker 3:so I um actually wrote Mewing. I kind of wrote Mewing after I was finishing my um, mfa, infa in film and television from SCAD. I made a body horror film that was about a girl that watched. It was called Serotonin and it was about a girl that watched like influencers and so she starts to perform like surgeries on herself to like look like her favorite Instagram influencers, like surgeries on herself to like look like her favorite Instagram influencers and when.
Speaker 3:But the thing with like making that film is that because it was a school project, technically I feel like a lot of that creative process was controlled and there were a lot of things that I wanted to say that I couldn't like say and fit to maybe like a 12 minute into a 12 minute film. So then that's how I ended up getting started on writing Mewing, because I wanted to talk more about, I guess, like the relationship between social media and body image issues and women and like women empowerment, how women can use beauty and fashion to sort of empower themselves, but then also how it can put us like at a mental disadvantage or can cause issues that way.
Speaker 2:Yeah, amazing, I love that. I would love to hear more about your like writing process, like how, how you came to, I guess, writing in general.
Speaker 3:That's a really good question. I think that when I was a kid I was very bored and I didn't have a lot of. I didn't like to be outside. I don't like to. I didn't like to be outside. I still don't like to be outside. I'm like if I'm inside and there's sunshine shining down, I'm like that's great, that's, that's perfect, that's fantastic for me.
Speaker 3:Um, but uh, I think when I was a kid I had a lot of just ideas and I had a lot of imaginary friends and things like that, and I think that that led to me wanting to write. So my dad was the one who taught me how to type on a computer. So like from a very young age I want to say maybe like gosh, I want to say maybe like as young as seven or 10, I'd have to check some files from like childhood. I love that. He's actually like archived and saved some of my earliest short stories that I've written. But basically, once he taught me how to use the computer, I was kind of I've just never stopped writing. I think it's. I think it's like great to use it as an outlet to sort of process things emotionally. So, as much as I want to be the person. That's like I'm going to stop like working so hard on writing. I'm like why am I so anxious to? Oh, I haven't written in a few days. That's kind of how it is.
Speaker 3:But in terms of process, I think that what I tend to do is I tend to look at things. A lot, of, a lot of my work, especially within the past few years, has just been influenced by a lot of experiences that I went through. So when I was diagnosed with PTSD, I ended up writing a couple of books related to that sort of experience. When I have experienced kind of issues relating to like body image, image issues, I would write about those. Um, sometimes I don't even necessarily, sometimes it's not necessarily influenced directly by my own life, but by something I've watched. So a lot of times I watch a movie or like read a new book.
Speaker 3:Suddenly, like an idea will pop into my head, um, and I typically tend to use like save the cat as a structure to sort of help me keep track of everything and like put things into beat. I put things into a beat sheet, basically, which really helps. I used to be a total pantser and I can't do it. I can't do it anymore Like I it's so sad. I feel like I've lost a skill, even though I in reality I've gained another cause now I can actually like plot things and stick to things, but yeah, so I try to plot. When I have an idea in mind, I try to like plot it in a beat sheet as soon as possible so that I can start working.
Speaker 2:I love that. That's so cool, that it's such a great book and I feel like I like when I first was writing like my first draft, I kind of I had like, no, I just like to write, basically, so, going back in with understanding, ok, so this is where you kind of want the inciting incident, this is where this should be happening and stuff. It really is so, so helpful and, like you said, having even if it's not like a hard plot, like outline, just something is such a lifesaver, because otherwise you're just staring at a screen and you're like what, what am I doing?
Speaker 3:Yes, yeah, and I think that, like writing down your plot or writing down, you know, utilizing a beat sheet or some kind of worksheet to kind of understand your character motivations, can also help you come up with ideas when you write yourself into a corner. But if you do that pre-writing work, I find it's really hard to get yourself out of that rut. I think when I've noticed. What I've noticed about myself is that if I don't pre-write or if I don't do enough like work before actually starting a draft, I will run into instances where I have writer's block or I experience writer's block like way more often. So now that I'm no longer a pantser like, the benefit is that I don't deal with writer's block at all. Pretty much the only the only thing that I would say is like writer's block for me is finding time to write.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I have that problem also, because life is just, it's just life. And you're like cool, when am I going to do the thing that I really want to do? Yeah, right, yes, I feel you on that one. That's amazing Solid advice. I feel like that's a really helpful thing. And that kind of mirrors another author that I was talking with of like that's usually a reason why she has writer's block. She's like I have not plotted or planned the chapter well enough and that's why I can't like there's no words that are coming. And I thought that that was a really cool thing. I'm like oh, that makes so much sense because even if you have a couple point forms, at least you know, okay, these are the important things I need to hit here. And if I don't, then clearly it it's going to like I'm going to have like a plot hole or I'm going to write myself into a corner or whatever. So that's solid advice.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, I think it's. I think it's just so important. I think that, like when writers first start out, they think that they can just pants their whole way through. I'm definitely, I definitely was the type, but no longer.
Speaker 2:Yeah, structure is a good thing. As somebody who is like chaotic ADHD, I'm like we we do need structure. Um, as much as we're like. I don't like it. It's boring, but I swear, I promise it helps. It helps contain the chaos. Yes.
Speaker 3:Awesome.
Speaker 2:Well, I'd love to hear a little bit more about how the experience has been now that your books are out in the world. Right, like often, like we think that writing is like the hardest part, but I feel like sometimes, like letting go of your book and giving it to to the world feels like a really scary experience it's scary.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I don't go on goodreads. Um, like I don't. Um, yeah, it's. It's scary, it's very surreal, because you spend so much time working on something that you just don't think that it's ever gonna like, like get out there and then it's here and then you kind of almost don't know what to do with yourself.
Speaker 3:I remember that, like when I released my first YA book, monster Sona, I ended up dealing with like I was just hit with this sudden bout of, like Post release depression and I just didn't. I had no idea that that was something that people I was like, why am I so sad? Like Monster S, I had no idea that that was something that people I was like, why am I so sad? Like Montezono was a number one new release on Amazon. There's no reason to be sad about it. It's done pretty well for, like an indie book. Um, and then I and then I realized, like talking to other authors and like making those kinds of friendships and connections, I realized that that's actually something that's super common. Um, yeah, so that's, that's that's. Thankfully, with like Haunting Melody, this time around I don't feel the, I don't feel the post release depression and I'm not sure if that's because I've just consistently had like a lot of work put out over the last couple of years or something, and so you know, I think that when you release like your first book as an author, you think that's it, I'm done, like I might not ever get a publishing deal again and it's like, no, you just got to take your time, you'll figure it out.
Speaker 3:But another kind of interesting aspect of Haunting Melody is that this time around I was able to do a book tour, so I was able to actually connect with readers in person. It's such a special experience. We had like a cake and everything at the launch party. It was really exciting. It was yeah, it was, it was really fantastic. I had, um, jenna Miller, who is the author of Out of Character and we Got the Beat. She writes basically their YA rom-coms. Um, she uh ended up moderating that event and that was just so special because we've been like such good friends and so, yeah, yeah, she's lovely, go read her books. I'll plug her amazing fine, yes, please.
Speaker 2:I love, yeah, a rom-com like my. My daughter is a avid uh reader, so I'm always on the hunt for more books. Not that she needs, but you know she always needs more. Let's see.
Speaker 3:I have like an embarrassing stack of books right next to me, actually, yeah, right here. Oh, you can't see it Cause my camera blur is turned on, but I can see, I can see the stack.
Speaker 2:We're there. Yeah, yeah, I feel that. And then yeah, forever a problem. And then I do this podcast. I'm like crap.
Speaker 3:So now I have even more Great.
Speaker 2:I just need like six months where all I do is read.
Speaker 3:I keep thinking about how it would be so nice to just take a vacation specifically to just focus on reading. I don't think I'll be able to do it like next year, but I try to read as much as I can. I've read about, I want to say, like maybe 84 books this year. That's amazing. Yeah, it's been really hard. It's been hard to do, but I tend to, because I need to get off my phone at a certain time of night, otherwise, like, I will just be like wired. So I started to try to regularly read for like an hour each night at least, and that has really helped me keep up, but then I buy too many books yes yeah, it's it's like a vicious cycle where you're like, oh okay, well, I finished this one or I'm reading again, so I better go buy another one.
Speaker 3:Or your friend releases a book and you're like, well, obviously I have to buy this no, I have so many friends that release books this year and I'm like, oh, oh, my God, guys, you're breaking my bank a little bit, I'm not gonna lie.
Speaker 2:Can we write it off as a business expense? I don't know.
Speaker 3:Yeah, actually there are people that say that they write them off as business expenses. I'm not a tax expert or a tax professional, but there are some people that I know that do it.
Speaker 2:I'm too afraid to do it, so yeah, I feel that that would be the accountant and I would be like you figure it out, sir, because I don't. I don't know this side of things. Awesome, that's so cool. So you, obviously, I guess. I kind of want to circle back to the in-person events. I feel like that's such an amazing thing and I feel like, because writing is such a solitary activity, like having that, I feel like it's got to be so important, like creating that networking space.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's so. It's so nice to be able to connect with readers because, since a lot of my readers, you know, for the YA space, I don't really get to talk to them a lot in person, and so like the events are really special to be able to just like meet someone and like sign their book and, you know, just get to talk to them about other books that they've read and that that kind of. Whenever I think like, oh, I'm so fed up with writing, like I'm fed up with like miscommunication from like publishers or this, that and the other thing, or any kind of stress related to planning for these events, being able to connect with those readers one-on-one is where I'm like oh, this is why I'm doing this, this is why I love doing this. In fact, they are a large part of that, yeah, which is always so nice, and it's really great to kind of get to see.
Speaker 3:I went to the twin cities book festival. That was kind of the final event and that had like tens of attendees. I want to say that they usually have like 6,000 attendees.
Speaker 1:Wow.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's, it was. It was like I sold I don't even know how many copies that day. It was like a wild amount of copies that I sold. But you get to see people from all different kind of walks of life at like these festivals too, um, to see who would be interested in a book, and things like that. Um, it's funny because I think that sometimes I get challenged on like so, because it was a general, all ages like book fair and like a all genres book fair.
Speaker 3:I was one of a few horror authors there, so I found myself like trying to like soften myself and, like you know, like, yeah, this is horror. Here's like my content warnings, like at the front please read them. Like this is something that you want to read. And it was funny because there were a lot of people that came up to me that were like, oh no, I love like splatterpunk. Oh no, I love extreme horror. Oh no, like the people that I wouldn't. There was a woman that walked up that I think had, like her, two kids with her and she bought like the one splatterpunk story that I had written and I was like, wow, like this is so wild to just like see how many like different people love these different things in these different genres, um, so that was kind of that was super cool yeah, I love that.
Speaker 2:That's so amazing that I feel like just connecting with people in that atmosphere is such like a boost to creativity too, of just like having people that like get the experience.
Speaker 3:Yes, yeah, and it's interesting because I think that when I go to places like even conventions or these book, like conventions, which are more focused, like for other authors and things like that, or when I go to you know, these book, these book festivals and stuff, I meet people that are sometimes very skeptical of horror or that are outright like, oh, I don't, I don't like that, I don't want, I don't want to do that, and I outright like, oh, I don't, I don't like that, I don't want, I don't want to do that. And I'm like fair, like you don't have to, like you don't have to read anything, you don't want to read. But it was interesting because I think that this one person at the twin cities book festival, this mom, she was there with her son and she was like why would, why do people like this? Why do? And I was like that's interesting.
Speaker 3:I think that people have not considered why people might be interested in a certain genre. And so with her I was just like, well, you know, like horror is kind of this very high octane, like action-based vehicle like it's. Most of these stories are jam-packed with like violence or like scary stuff like it. It keeps you on your toes and it keeps you turning the pages. But I think, on like another level, like horror can, very because of its so its high octane nature, I'm like horror can easily kind of communicate like a lot of um messages about like different themes or different human experiences.
Speaker 3:Oh gosh, I'm trying to think of the one book I think it's called Crossroads, and for me I do not remember the author, but this is a really creepy book.
Speaker 3:That's actually about a mother learning to deal with, like the loss of her teenage son, and so a lot of like messages about grief that are explored in that and how it can, and also kind of the examination of like what support system that mothers um, yes, that's just something that I'm like if, if this was told in a drama, people might be bored, but because it is like a woman making like sacrifices to her um, to like the uh, the, I guess like the memorial site on the side of the road for her son, that's what she was doing. Um, she was making like blood sacrifice. She was like basically just blood letting onto the um, onto that uh particular site, um, like I think a lot of people are able to connect to that better, like on an emotional level and they're able to sort of connect that idea a little bit better, versus just talking about it, as you might, in like a drama so yeah, that's huge.
Speaker 2:I think that's such an interesting thing with grief of just like kind of like navigating that in my own life, but that sort of like raw, like the anger, like the, just the intensity of the emotion, and I feel like that kind of conveys it in a way that you wouldn't typically see or just shows the rawness. I think of it because it feels like you're going crazy sometimes, right.
Speaker 3:And I think that horror lets you have that kind of catharsis because it can go really off the rails, whereas you can't really do that. I think grounded in you can't really do that as much in realistic fiction without it, right, I feel like it would. I feel like you would get into a very jarring kind of uh, what is it? A little life by that, yeah, where it's like yeah, so you get into those very jarring sort of situations instead and, um, I think horror just makes it a little bit more palatable too. For people.
Speaker 2:That's, yeah, that's super interesting. I always find it fascinating of like, why people love what they love and people have they. Just they love what they love. That's really it's so interesting to see and I think it's really cool that you know you have that space to like write these stories and then connect with the readers that are going to love that work, which is so cool.
Speaker 3:Yeah, thank you, it is really cool. I love what I do, I love to talk to people about it and I also love being able to like. I think that with that one lady I had brought up the example of Black Christmas, which is, for some reason, when I'm is that centers on a protagonist who is she's a pregnant college student that's dealing with like an abuse or like controlling abusive boyfriend. So she's trying to navigate like conversations relating bodily autonomy and like what she wants to do, while also trying to prevent her and her sorority sisters from getting killed prevent her and her sorority sisters from getting like killed. And so I think horror in in that particular movie. It's a really great like way to sort of examine that situation without it being so grounded in drama. And the mom, she looked at me and she's like you know, I don't think I ever thought about it like that before, but I'm going to think about it some more and I was like that's great, like that's that's great, Like that's.
Speaker 2:That's, that's all I'd like. That's so cool. I love that. I feel like that's really just like opening up and I mean you can try it, and if it's not your cup of tea, cool, and I feel like that's. That's. The beauty of books is that there's always going to be one for you. It's just a matter of finding it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, for sure. And like there's even some sub genres of horror that I can't connect to as well, like, for some reason, cosmic horror. I get so confused, I get so lost, I'm like I don't, I don't know what's going on right now. I feel like we're off the rails, um, but like other types, I can, and so it's okay, like to kind of explore, um, the different sub genres within a genre, to figure out what really, like, speaks to you.
Speaker 2:That's, that's amazing and yeah, it's just, it's wild the amount of like sub genres that exist in like I have. I had no idea until I like really entered the world, like the writing world. I'm like, oh my gosh, I've been living in a little bubble here the writing world.
Speaker 3:I'm like, oh my gosh, I've been living in a little bubble here, yeah. Yeah, like there's so many and, you know, like romanticcy, like a haunting melody, the, the uh, one way that came out. It's also kind of got like some contemporary fantasy or like romanticcy elements in it too, and so it's kind of it's kind of interesting to see how many of different works nowadays are also like genre blenders too.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I think that that's like really really popular right now. People are really loving that. Um like, yeah, fantasy is like in in its prime. Like it is, it is high right now yeah, and I love the cozy fantasy.
Speaker 3:I love like the cozy fantasy that's emerging and things like that. I love the cozier takes on genre. I'm like, yes, I need something a little low stakes when I don't feel like a horror book or when I don't like having my heartstrings pulled on by, like a rom-com. Those are pretty much the two genres I dabble in, so yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I definitely like the happy, happy ever. After some of them I'm like, oh, I just I don't want to cry today. I need something where I like I know it's going to end OK. The anxiety is like we need predictability.
Speaker 3:Right, right, it's like I need predictability. I need to offset some of this. I need to offset some of the darkness that I'm experiencing and just read something joyful.
Speaker 2:Yeah, 100 joyful, yeah, a hundred percent Amazing. Um, I would love to hear what would be one piece of advice you'd have for somebody who's just starting out their writing journey?
Speaker 3:That is such a good question. Um, I think that one piece of advice I have is to definitely uh, you know what I'm'm gonna get. I'm gonna get a little bit personal on here. I think I get really frustrated Because when I was a kid and I was a writer I was, you know, there was that whole. There was that whole message of like you have to suffer for your art, or like you have to like keep working on your art in whatever way that you can, and things like that. Um, and there was.
Speaker 3:I think that, like, when young artists are starting out, we just kind of act like they need to like starve and like try to work, like meaning all jobs, to like make things work, um, for their writing career, rather than find something that's full-time and stable. Um, like, I know, I know people that just kind of feel pressure to take like low-paying jobs, to take like low paying jobs or something like an advertising firm or something that's like adjacent to writing, or just because they have to focus on their craft, because they think that they have to starve for their art. And I want to say you do not have to starve for your art, please do not do that. I think, if you're able to. I know that, like young writers think that they need to find something like if their education, like if they go to college for something related to writing, they have to find a job that's explicitly within that field. I I went to school for journalism and I don't work in journalism like actively anymore just because it wasn't, it wasn't a career that could like was sustainable, and instead the job that I have now I won't talk about it here because, like it's just it's, it's a privacy thing, but the job that I have now allows me to is allows me to support myself where I don't starve and I can have like certain luxuries. And because I have a job that is like more flexible, even though it's not inside the field that I necessarily wanted it to be in, I'm able to write more often and more frequently than I would probably if I was scraping away in some like broadcasting television station in like the Midwest somewhere.
Speaker 3:So that I think is like the biggest thing is you don't need to starve for your art, need to starve for your art. You need to build a life for yourself that is flexible and is um, is, is provides for your needs so that you are able to write. Your first number one job as a writer or as a creative of any kind is making sure that your own needs are met, and particularly if you don't have a support system. Um, once you do that, then everything else after I promise it will follow. I promise.
Speaker 2:That's huge. I think that's so important, right Cause, if your basic needs are met, you're not going to be able to tap into creativity, right Right, you're in that step, fight or flight and nothing creative moves in that space. I think that's great of just if finding a job that maybe it isn't in the degree that you have, whatever, but if it allows the space for you to write who cares Like? I'm in the same space. I have a super part-time job. It allows the space for me to bring in some income, and then I also have time to write and build my business and such, which I'm forever grateful for. So I think that's such solid advice. And plus, I have like a million and one different degrees. So I have a problem. I have a problem. I would just forever love to go to school. If it was free, that would be amazing.
Speaker 3:I thought that when I would go to um, when I went to uh SCAD for my MFA in film and television I remember when I first entered I I'm going to go get a BFA in animation after this and I'm like, no, you're not, stop it, stop doing, don't do that.
Speaker 2:No, we need to actually take action on the thing that we really want to do Exactly.
Speaker 3:Exactly, yeah. So I know that, like I think a lot of young people, young writers in particular, just feel this pressure that they have to work in their field at every second of every day. And I'm just like, just please, please, don't. If I took that job, if I took the job that I had been offered to work as a producer for a broadcasting place, which I would have been making maybe $28,000 a year and I probably would have needed to get a part time job, oh my gosh, yeah, it was bad. No, it's bad. Like there's a reason why, like a lot of people like get journalism degrees and then they don't stay in it like full-time it's, the pay is really bad and the hours are bad too. So it's like you're not getting I think that that was salary pay and not like hourly pay on top of that. So it's like 100%.
Speaker 2:I love that. That's so cool you never know how writing is gonna flow right. Like whatever, like it can come in in the weirdest ways, whether, like maybe it's you're writing emails or creating documents, like whatever, like who knows it's, you're still writing it's.
Speaker 3:I think that still counts yeah, yeah, I think that that still counts and you know, at the end of the day, if you're able to like log off and go home and make yourself a nice dinner and like do some self-care, whatever that may look like for you, and write like that's, that is, that is your mission accomplished, like yes, wonderful you're doing it amazing, awesome, uh, and finally, where can people connect with you and find your books?
Speaker 3:yeah, um, so people can find me on my website, which is chloe spencer onlinecom, and then they can also find me on instagram and blue sky and tiktok at hey, it's chloe spencer. I used to have a twitter. I have since deleted it. Um, so I'm not sure. Don't go looking for me there. I'm not, I'm not.
Speaker 2:I don't know, I don't know how to do that either, like I've never done that.
Speaker 3:So props to you yeah no, twitter just became a fire, and so I was like I'm going to leave, I'm going to bounce.
Speaker 2:Amazing, awesome, cool and books where are? Where is it best to buy? Direct from your website or like? Can we support local bookshops like?
Speaker 3:yeah, absolutely. I encourage you to support your local bookstores. Um, my books are available in ebook and paperback formats. Um, my YA books have hardcover formats as well. You can buy them pretty much wherever books are available. But please definitely support your local bookstore. I would prefer that on top. I would prefer that as opposed to something like Amazon or Barnes and Noble, because if you go into your local bookstore and they and they see that a lot of people are buying my books, I might be able to do signing events there and things like that. So it all trickles down. So that's awesome.
Speaker 2:That's so cool. I love it. I feel like I learned a lot and it was like perfect energy booster for the evening. Now I feel like I can tackle my evening.
Speaker 3:Well, I'm glad this was a lot of fun. Thank you for having me.
